It's true, you have to pay the books and they are expensive, anyway you have right to a free school until eighteen years old and there are helps for the poorest families to pay the books, the transport and the lunch. You can also manage to buy 2nd hand books at a very good price, although they try to change editions very often. I have two years more than my brother and he couldn't use my books.
About health insurance it doesn't covers dental care, glasses ... and it goes slow, I had a problem with my hearing in january and I got an appoinment for one month later! Fortunately I have a private insurance. For serious illness and urgencies normally public health is better than normal private health.

There is nothing free... we pay it via taxes.

Public school is "free" until the child reaches 18 years-old. Education is obligatory until 16 years-old.

As for the public health care it is free for all citizens, althought is not as good as a private insurance. That means that at least people don't die near a hospital only because he has no private insurance.

Toddy, I hear a certain ironic tone. I would be glad to hear your opinion on how spanish society behaves. Do you think our society model is a good one? Perhaps you may share with us what you think is wrong in our social system

Fernando

I guess Fernando, I have found it hard to have an itellectual debate because the tone I get is that Spain is "better" than the USA. It is hard to get past this subjective emotionalism and also very hard to dispel these Spanish myths that keep going around. I understand that health care is not free for everybody and many people have to pay some money for prescriptions. Also, education is not so free if you have to pay for your own books. I don't think Spanish society is bad or good. I HAVE observed a lot of Spaniards put down American society, while at the same time mimicing it more and more everyday. Is this a cultural inferiority complex brought on by 40 years of dictatorship, I don't know. But it sounds like a great course.

Interesting...

Obviously spanish society is far from perfect, nor it is american society or any other.

I have to agree with you that spaniards are more than proud of their way of living, and that sometimes we think that all spanish is the best.

That is something I really hate. People here can't see when someone is worth of being admired, or to think what we could learn from other cultures (specially when those cultures have proved better in certain ways, for example the hard work in USA).

In other words: We are as chauvinistic as the most chauvinistic country (France?). We think that our food is the best (which is argueable), our beaches are the best, our customs are the best, and our society model is the best.

Said this, we should also recognize that there are things worth of admiring here. And I must say one of the things I like is the "free" education and health care.

Besides, you should take in mind that we are on a message board which is about Spain. So it is normal that everybody here talks about the good things of Spain (would you really consider what you don't like of Spain when thinking about a trip?).

Enjoy what you like, and forget what you dislike (or open a new thread and we will discuss it as evenly as possible)

Fernando

Fernando you sound a little like Don Quijote. Once again, education is not free in Spain and neither is health care. I understand that many people MUST pay for their prescription medication AND children must pay for all of their schoolbooks. So free is another Spanish myth.
(Remember Mr. Quijote, that's a windmill and not an army)

I'm afraid the old adage, "There's no such thing as a free lunch!," comes into play. The money that goes into the educational system comes from taxes, and therefore, since people pay taxes directly or indirectly, they pay for education. Of course politicians like to use the "free education" rhetoric to make them look good, but if you look past the words, and to the truth, income taxes in Spain are high, and the 16% VAT tax is outrageous. Guess what? That's where they get the money for the "free" education and national health programs. It certainly isn't a gift from the tooth fairy, or a generous benefactor.

Considering how low the wages are for doctors in Spain's national health system, and how high they can be in "private practice" where they can exact money from private insurance companies, guess where all the best doctors end up practicing? It certainly isn't going to be within the national program, where they would make three or four times less than they would, in private practice.

Still, I do agree it's nice to have a national health program. I think the US should have one too. As for education, basically we have a similar program of education as Spain, but we acknowledge readily that we pay for it through our property taxes. We don't try to pull the wool over everyone's eyes by saying it's free when it certainly isn't.

Wolf (Who's never had what he really considered a "free lunch" in life. You end up paying for it one way or another in the end.)

Wolf, thanks again for bringing rational thought to this debate. I think that the US could benefit greatly from preventitive free health care. However, I would be a little concerned about providing total free health care as modern life saving medicine is very very expensive. I am curious, though, to wonder how far the "free" health care system in Spain goes. Would they pay for any life saving treatment? I can't imagine any country could afford 100,000 dollars (or euros) a day to provide some of the modern medical treatments to their citizens.

Toddy you will really be funny to see in any comic show... So I'm a Don Quixote... what imaginative and kind you are!

But you demonstrate again that you have not much idea on how the spanish health care system works. Medication also comes from the health care system and is normally "free" (Watch this time for ", it means that it is not really free, but payed via direct or indirect taxes).

The families with the higher incomes have no free schools. The poorer families have not to pay for their children schools, but yes, have to pay for books. Health care is totally free when the treatment is something important (as far as I know dentist, aesthetic cirugy, etc are not free).

Besides, there are economic aids to the poorer families to acquire the books at a lower cost.

Fernando

Fernando,
Sorry for my tone and sarcasm, but I'm just a little tired of people on this site thinking they have to put down the US to make Spain sound better.
And once again, I understand that many people have to pay some money for their prescriptions directly(not via taxes).
I am also still very curious about where the "Free" healthcare ends. Most of the modern life saving and extending medicine and machines are very very expensive. With a huge aging Spanish population, the "Free" must end somewhere.

.......still waiting.......