hey. I was very surprised when I went over to Spain to experience the Gypsies. I have lived in the US my whole life and have never seen a race of begging people. At first they scared me, but when I thought about them, I don't know if they're oppressed people or what. I know they're closely associated with the flamenco. Does anyone have any advice for me on how to handle them. I don't want to be offensive but want to really understand them?

Chances are, you're not going to understand them. They aren't opressed either, so don't feel sorry for them. The Gypsies have their own world and rules within that world. They have choices just like the rest of us and choose to live and behave the way they do. Admire the good qualities, but I suggest you do it from a safe distance. Be careful and don't be fooled.

I was talking with my Spanish friend about this topic this week and she told me that when she walks by them and they try to sell her flowers she makes sure that they know she's Spanish and not a turist. When they say "Toma toma" she says "No" and points to them and says "pa ti, pa ti" and they leave her alone. I tried it and it worked.

Hey, jysuper, your post got me thinking about an article I read recently about the Gypsies (who prefer the term Roma to describe themselves). I went looking for it online, and found instead a WEALTH of information about who the Roma are and the various issues facing them in Europe and other places in the world. You might check out

http://www.flamenco.org/gypsy.html

http://web.jet.es/gea21/ing.htm

http://www.unionromani.org/

http://www.religioustolerance.org/roma.htm

http://pw1.netcom.com/~ethnic/prague1.html

http://www.geocities.com/Paris/5121/patrin.htm

http://www.rnw.nl/humanrights/html/prejudiceromania.html

http://www.romaedu.org.uk/index.htm

http://www.rferl.org/nca/features/1997/06/F.RU.970623151122.html

There are MANY other resources available online if you're interested in learning more about the Roma people and their customs, various stereotypes, etc. The parallels between the experience of the Roma in Europe and of African Americans in the USA are made quite explicit in many of these writings.

And BTW, the term Roma does not mean that these people are from Romania (just as the term Gypsy does not mean that they are from Egypt, though that's apparently what the term initially meant).

Thanks for prompting me to learn a bit more about a group I knew very little about, jysuper!

Tara

I read a fascinating book about the gypsies of Europe years ago that I would highly recommend. Although from what I remember, the author spent most of her time with the Romany of Eastern European countries, she did a great job researching their past, (what is known at least), and looking at contemporary issues facing them. The book is called "Bury me Standing" but I can't recall the author's name.

My experience with the Spanish gypsies (gitanos) has been multi-faceted. On the one hand, you have those who beg (the choices that were spoken of by Espe3), etc. On the other there are those who try to integrate into a society that doesn't really have (or create) a place for them. They're almost a class of "desolados".

A dear friend of mine teaches in Bilbao at a public school, where several children are gitanos. Most of the Spanish parents have removed their children from the class out of fear. They don't want their children in with "those kids". [Sound familiar America?] She has had run-ins with the parents and has also felt threatened, but loves the kids. Racism exists in Spain, and this is one manifestation of it.

I've also been witness to a gitano man chasing a friend of mine with a syringe filled with his own blood. While this is an isolated incident, it was certainly heinous and it certainly tainted my friend's view of the gitanos.

I've usually just avoided the beggars and have spoken Spanish to them when approached. The funny thing is, when they say "dame algo para comer" and you hand them food, they become indignant. One would assume by this general reaction that they are not in fact hungry, but are interested in money. Carry a Snickers bar in your pocket and hand it to them...then watch the reaction. We even offered to buy lunch for a pair of gitanos and they said, "no we want the money".

I agree with Espe3's opinion. Don't feel sorry for them, just take the good, sift out the bad, and enjoy the great contributions they have made [for example in areas such as music and dance].

Cali, your post is fascinating...it does bring to mind so many of the race issues our country has been dealing with for so long. It's remarkable to me how a few bad experiences can taint a person's view of an entire group of people...yet of course that is exactly what happens! My little sister was held up at gunpoint by a group of African American teens about 8 years ago, and it took her a long time to get over being afraid of young black men. It's a reaction that she wasn't proud of, but it was certainly a natural one. Your experience with the needle reminded me of that.

As for parents taking kids out of classes, that's, as you say, all too familiar to anyone in this country with a passing knowledge of the history of race relations here (and particularly in the South). What a heartbreaking situation for those gitano kids and their families, and for the teachers who want to be able to teach them (and for the kids of those narrow-minded parents who don't realize that THIS is what REAL education is all about! What horrible messages have their kids learned from being pulled from classes?!).

I heard someone comment on Minnesota's social policies recently, and it really reminds me of this issue...what they said was that it was really easy for Minnesota to be progressive and liberal back 30 years ago, when we were instituting programs and services for "people like us" ("us" being northern European stock, lots of Scandinavians, etc.). Now that the programs and services are needed by southeast Asian immigrants, or Somali immigrants, people are closing down a bit...we take care of "our own," but "our own" doesn't mean "them."

I wonder if that's what is happening throughout Europe, with the rise of the nationalist movements we're seeing in so many countries? As Europe becomes "The United States of Europe," will we see more of this? How sad if we do. (And yes, I am a flaming Wellstone liberal progressive Democrat, so take that into account as you process the above comments!)

Well, I am a flaming anti-immigration Republican American who is all for Nationalistic causes and is against World Globalization. So take that into account.

(You do know that I am joking around?...except of the Republican American part...I do vote Republican. :o )

CaliBasco,

The story about the syringe doesn't surprise me in the least. About nine years ago, when my Son was visiting Bilbao (He'd just graduated from high school, and was on his way to play college football that fall and was in top physical condition.), he'd run from the home he was staying in, to the Gold's Gym, where he was doing his work outs. One morning, while he waited for a street light to change, a guy came up to him, threatening him with a syringe of blood. My son wasn't carrying anything on him... including wallet, or money, so he was concerned that he was going to get "stuck," no matter what. Especially since he's a blue eyed blonde... Scandinavian or Germanic appearance... making matters worse, he could only half understand the language.

The guy became frustrated over the situation, and became even more threatening. His only mistake was waving his arms, and pulling the syringe far enough away that my son (Who also kicked field goals and extra points as well as playing fullback in high school and college.) was able to send the guy's "vital parts" into an orbit somewhere around his adnoids. While the guy writhed on the ground, the syringe a good fifteen feet away, my Son made sure he wouldn't get up to harm him. His next kick launched the guys nose to another location on his head. Fortunately he avoided the teeth, which could have been disastrous, if they penetrated his shoe.

He was lucky. The syringe thing is very dangerous. Especially since many of the people using that ploy for extortion are HIV positive. In fact, just the threat itself should be considered as lethal as using a gun for a holdup.

I certainly don't recommend my Son's response to anyone. If you miss, you're in serious trouble. Even if you do hit home, there's the chance that needle could still get you. Not a pleasant thought. When my Son told me about the incident, I didn't know quite what to say. I had no answer as to what the right way to handle a situation like that really is. Especially if you don't have anything on you they can steal.

Wolf (Who's just glad his Son's still with him.)

wolf, out of curiousity, could you tell me which barrio that happened in and what time of day?