Thanks for the info Russ...I ordered the book. yes, San Fran's nice.....if you don't mind paying $8 for a donut

Being a hard nosed East coast kinda gal, I have to say that yes, San Francisco is beautiful! It´s lovely! It´s too freaking expensive!! And the people there are too friendly....in a freaky kinda way...

I mean c´mon, who ever heard of their bus drivers greeting the passengers with a cheery "good morning! How are you doing today?" Being so used to the grumpy SEPTA drivers in Philadelphia, I almost fell off the bus backwards when I was greeted in such a humanely way in San Francisco!!

I´m dying for the day when we can get back to San Fran!!

P.S. What does San Francisco have to do with bullfighting anyway? Did you know there are bull fights in Nevada AND Korea??

I know this topic has been covered in the past, bullfighting is an art, not a sport nor a gory spectecal. No two buulfights are identical, and no two toreros are equal in style and techinque. The corridas from Sevilla have been generally quite entertaining, and I have enjoyed watching them. As for those who find it cruel, I can only offer this little reminder- Don´t watch them. For those who prefer to ban them on grounds that they are cruel- Stop eating meat products, stop wearing leather, since animals killed for consumtion did not exactly recieve tranquilzer before being dipatched. Toros bravos were raised to be killed, they are not people, they do not dream about retiring in the Hamptons or traveling to the Canaries. I hope we can agree to disagree on this topic, and let Spaniards decide the fate of the corridas, not a handful of radical animal right activists from abroad who wish to ban the burger.

My two cents...

I don't like the Corridas de Toros (Bullfighting) but I apreciate it as an art. Nobody can't say that it has not a cruel face, but you should go further and see that there is something more. The spectacle is not focused on how bloody is to kill the bull, but how the torero (bullfighter) has a power relation with the bull.

Keep in mind this: This bulls are (as Shawn says) bred for bullfighing, they are a very very special kind of which there are not a great number. The "toro de lidia" would have dissapeared from Spain if it was not bred for bullfighting.

And then, the meat of the bull is sold to markets, so people can eat its meat, and prepare typical recipes as "rabo de toro".

How do you think a cow or a sheep is killed? The cut their neck and let them blood.

Sincerely, I would be more preocupated on the people that is being killed in Palestina and other places of the world than for an animal (though I would like them to be killed with as less pain as possible).

You don't have to enjoy bullfighting (I don't) just don't see it only as killing a bull in a bloody manner.

Fernando

I think we're mixing up two different issues here--they are:

1) Should there be bullfights?

and

2) Should there be bullfights on television?

TV researchers in this country (of which my husband is one!) might suggest that adding to the violence on television is generally a bad idea, particularly when these events are broadcast during times (evenings, weekends?) when children are watching. Whether it's real violence (in the tradition of reality television or violent sports like bullfighting--where people or animals really get hurt) or fake violence (wrestling, many police dramas--where people or animals only seem to get hurt) probably matters less...when you're 5, it looks pretty similar.

"Six prominent medical groups (American Academy of Pediatrics, American Academy of Child & Adolescent Psychiatry, American Psychological Association, American Medical Association, American Academy of Family Physicians and the American Psychiatric Association) warn of these effects of media violence on children:

Children will increase anti-social and aggressive behavior.
Children may become less sensitive to violence and those who suffer from violence.
Children may view the world as violent and mean, becoming more fearful of being a victim of violence.
Children will desire to see more violence in entertainment and real life.
Children will view violence as an acceptable way to settle conflicts.
(Congressional Public Health Summit, 2000)."
(From National Institute on Media and the Family website )

And there is always the counterargument that you can change the channel...but does that really happen? If abuelo is watching the corrida, will little María switch it off?

One glimmer of hope that comes out of the TV violence research is that TALKING with children about violence they see on TV really helps to lessen these effects (glamorizing, desensitizing, normalizing). Of course, in most cases the talking would be about how the violent behavior on TV wouldn't be appropriate in real life, or in OUR family, in OUR school, in OUR neighborhood (what kind of underlying message this sends is a different topic altogether). With bullfighting, the only response to the violent images is to say, "yes, those are real, and some people find it entertaining."

Anyway, whether the fights continue to exist in the ring or not, putting them on television seems to me to be a bad idea. If I want to see one (and I have seen just one, which was enough), I can pay to go.

And I am sure someone will point out that these violence effects are more likely to happen in cases of person-to-person violence...but I would argue that violence against animals is seen by most psychologists as a gateway behavior, leading in many cases to later aggression toward people. I don't know what the possible effects of community-sanctioned violence against animals would be.

Again, no Spaniard would ever consider or call bullfighting a sport!!!
(I don't think )

agreed

That may be so...but it's probably presented on television as a sport, with announcer commentary and views of the crowd's reactions. Maybe a better word would be "spectacle," as used in several previous posts?

Interesting topic. I have been lucky enough to travel to Madrid a fair amount, and I have never attended a bullfight. I saw several on Television last summer. I have to say, I don't think they are going to cause a child to turn violent. I think television in general is bad for kids, and think 4 hours is too much -- a month.

I don't enjoy seeing any animal hurt. But put it in perspective. The bull lives nearly a perfect life and then is killed in about 15 minutes. Compared to the life of any beef animal in the US, I have to believe the US animals would trade in a heartbeat. I can't speak for other countries, but we treat livestock pretty poorly, and cause a lot of pain in their roughly two years of life. Just the transport in my mind would be worse than anything a fighting bull goes through. I don't eat much red meat, and no veal. The life of a veal calf is horrible. Dairy cows do a bit better, until they quit producing milk at an acceptable rate, then they get to go through the same travel agent. And the destination is the same. (A bit better assuming that you don't think they mind having their annual calf removed at birth; or that raising that calf in isolation with "milk replacement" out of a bottle is perfectly humane.) For the record I once ran a small cow-calf operation and had personal experience with the process. I have also observed feedlots, but have never visited a slaughter house.