No, this thread isn't about sex...though it will probably get around to it at some point.

I was grading student papers for a course I teach in infant development, and one of the questions (dealing with sleeping arrangements for parents and babies in America and in Guatemala) got me thinking...where do Spanish babies sleep? Here in the US, most sleep in their own rooms, in a crib...but there is a small (but growing) percentage of parents who prefer to have their babies sleep in bed with them. This is a subject of heated debate here...how about in Spain?

And the talk about getting two beds in most Spanish hotel rooms still has me puzzled...do most married couples have one bed or two? Or is is like here in America, where people share a bed until they get a bit older and HIS snoring drives HER into another room!?

Just wondering.
Tara

What a topic line, taravb!

Again, people help me out here, but in my experience babies sleep in their parents' room, next to the mother, in a bassinet or basket called a "Moises" (after Moses, who was found in the Nile in a basket...), because it's so very convenient for mid-night nursing. There's often a comfy chair there in the room for the same reason. I've never heard of any baby sleeping IN the bed with the parents. (I know it's done in the U.S. - The thought makes me shudder - what about strangulation?)As soon as the baby sleeps through the night, he/she goes to a crib in another room.

About the 2 beds or 1 - most married couples sleep in one bed. However, I've known a few with 2 beds - one was definitely due to advanced age and medical conditions, but the other was a young couple, and why has always been a total mystery to me. I didn't have the guts to ask, and neither did their close friends. It's still a mystery.... But not the norm.

The two bed thing is an interesting topic (and doesn´t stray from the who sleeps with whom topic...)

When we were bed shopping back in May (my first experience here), I was totally fascinated by the concept of having two twin sized mattresses that were outfitted for a shared bedframe. The bed(s) was definitely for the married couple. It´s selling point was that each person could raise or lower their side of the bed to their liking.

The other selling point was that because each of the mattresses were independent, when one tossed and turned in his/her sleep, the movements did not disturb the other.

Finally, the most unique feature of them all is that the mattresses sported a special zipper so that the two could be joined as one. Holy mattressmony!!!

ha ha ha!

Plus you get the added bonus of being able to actually MOVE the dumb things...we live in a small 1.5-story house, and it was such a trick to get the mattresses upstairs!

[ 01-30-2002: Message edited by: taravb ]

Come to think of it ... was it just my odd perception or are mattresses actually smaller and lighter in weight than they are here in the US? (as the Spanish would say, todo Americano ... a lo grande.)

I had the opportunity to sleep in "full" and "twin" size beds over there. The twin beds were small enough that I could reach the edge with my toes (unheard of here ... I am 5' 4") and when I would make the bed in the morning I could easily flip the mattress over, almost cot-like! The pillows were small as well.

I remember thinking that bedroom must just be sleeping room with the focus of the home really on social living spaces, at least in the way some of the older homes and apartments were designed. Perhaps that's why the bedrooms are so small, lacking closets even and requiring wardrobes.

Well in any case, if my perception is accurate, I would think that a couple sharing two twin beds would be in very snuggly holy mattresmony!

[ 01-29-2002: Message edited by: churrocaliente ]

Just a thought regarding infants sleeping in the same bed with the parents. Although it seems really strange for Americans, some studies have showed that instead of increasing the odds of smothering, etc, having the infant sleep with the parents actually decreases the likelihood of Sudden Infant Death Syndrome. They think that the breathing and heartbeat of the parents help regulate that of the baby.

As an aside, at my former job we talked with Somali women about this issue. They generally keep the babies with them in bed- and nurse them - for a couple of years. None of them ever heard of a case of accidental smothering by the parents in their sleep. They said they were unconciously aware of the babies presence throughout the night, and it made nursing easier as well..

I've heard the same thing, Nicole, about the studies you mention. When my daughter was a tiny baby, she slept in bed with us for about 6 weeks. It's true, you're really conscious of the baby (this might be different for really sound sleepers). I liked knowing how she breathed, and we slept face-to-face most of the time. I think it's supposed to be something about the carbon dioxide from the mom that regulates the baby's breathing?

My husband wasn't as aware of her, though, so she stayed on my side of the bed. It made middle-of-the-night feedings much easier. At about 6 weeks, though, I wanted my space back and we moved her to a crib in our room.

Some developmental researchers link these early sleeping patterns to cultural trends toward individualism or collectivism...which is part of what got me wondering about Spanish sleeping patterns. It seems the American culture encourages the early development of self-sufficiency and independence (as opposed to interdependence) more than many, perhaps including Spain?

I have noticed that the mattresses in Spain are lighter, too...probably much easier to get into upper stories of buildings and through narrow stairwells!

Oh, Tara, now THAT'S an interesting topic! "It seems the American culture encourages the early development of self-sufficiency and independence (as opposed to interdependence) more than many, perhaps including Spain?"

I currently teach in a private school in the U.S., and we're reaching a crisis with the parents. They have so over-protected their children, to the point that by middle school the kids are often incapable of feeling any responsibility for their actions, find anything even slightly challenging to be too hard, and run to their parents with outrageous complaints about the school that their parents actually believe, no matter how ridiculous. Then these same parents come charging in to school insulting the teachers and demanding that everything be immediately changed to protect the self esteem of their beloved child. The fact is, the self esteem of these children is already low because they've never had the satisfaction of knowing that THEY are capable of doing things on their own, thanks to their meddling parents. In Madrid, when I taught both Spanish and American children (and many other nationalities as well)the Americans were the kids who needed the most help.

OK, I realise I'm making sweeping generalizations, and a private school environment in no way describes what's really happening in a culture, but pick up any women's magazine with a parenting article, and you'll see clues that over-protective and indulging parents are becoming a real problem here. So how does that compare to Spain? Kids ARE indulged a lot in Spain - especially with lots of hugs, kisses, and candy! - and sometimes it seems even more so than in the States. But at the same time, Spanish kids are allowed to walk out down the street alone or with friends or siblings by the time they are 5, without a worried mom believing he/she will be attacked, abused, or kidnapped. They go to the panaderia to buy the bread. They walk to school. They buy a merienda. They use public transportation. They play with their friends around the corner. They're not constantly hovered over by parents. They don't have to carry a walkie talkie when they're out of sight of the house, or "call as soon as you get there." But then again, an American parent will encourage a 2-year-old to run, whereas a Spanish parent may call, "Don't run! You may fall!" I'm not sure I'm really talking about independence as opposed to interdependence, but rather a mixture of ideas having to do with independence in general. Spanish kids strike me as being much more independent than American kids (although I base this on suburban kids, not city kids. They may be different. I'm definitly not an expert on this!) And is the self-sufficiency and independence Americans strive for in their lives as adults really helpful, as compared to the interdependence the Spaniards so clearly display within their own personal communities? What about the heart-aching loneliness of so many Americans?

Please excuse my ranting, but this is a fascinating topic!

This is a fascinating topic indeed.

Diana I was amazed when reading your post because it sounded like the behavior of some students and parents that I dealt with -- only this was in the university! (I used to teach composition and literature.)

It really was unbelievable how LITTLE responsibility these college-aged students wanted to take. (And this was a well-heeled private university in South Florida.) The most extreme example -- one student actually threatened with having his lawyer-father sue the teacher because he didn't pass the course and actually harassed the teacher for months. (I knew this case and the teacher was right.)

After a few semesters of teaching, I started to make make my students sign and date their class policies and procedures, which read like a legal document. Then they couldn't come to me at the end of the semester and say, "Oh I dind't know that I would fail if I didn't show up." Yes, someone actually said that!

I know these are sweeping generalizations, but it's interesting to speculate here: in general, my foreign students were much better at respecting the teacher, following class policies and meeting deadlines than their American counterparts. Even those who tried to cheat did it without being disrespectful to me -- even after I caught them red-handed.

It was a pleasure to work with the foreign students, especially the Hispanic and caribbean ones. Although they struggled with the language, it seemed like they knew they had to have their act together (or at least pretend like they did) without any of the whining and self-indulgent fussing of some of the American students.

I don't know why this is the way it is ... but surely how one's parents instill a sense of independence in us must have something to do with it. I don't teach anymore and in part it's because I didn't want to babysit young adults.

I'm not saying the American educational system is bad ... but boy oh boy I heard many Spaniards say that it was. I really had to defend myself in Spain and say hey, it produced me, you calling me stupid??? Then they would say, ah, you're not a typical American!

Now I know there are many good American students out there. But still, I had to admit to my friends in Spain that some American students didn't take their education seriously.

Many of my colleagues who taught at community colleges said that students were better behaved because they were more often than not the children of immigrants and truly realized the value of their education.


Gender and class also complicates this issue ... one could go on and on!!!

Churrito

[ 01-30-2002: Message edited by: churrocaliente ]

Churrocaliente... as a recent college grad., i had to respond to your post! you wrote

"It really was unbelievable how LITTLE responsibility these college-aged students wanted to take"...

I totally agree... I worked very hard during my 4 years in college and was always frustrated by the lack of interest in my peers, and their numerous attempts to get out of work or challenges... I was a Business/Spanish education double major, and having taken courses on how to teach, (which were taught mostly by Hispanic professors!) i began to see where many of the problems lie in our educational system and that, when compared to other countries, we're going way too easy on our kids... my college Spanish professor did excatly what you did as well ("I started to make make my students sign and date their class policies and procedures, which read like a legal document")... we always had to do this because of incidents like what you mentioned!!! my father is a college professor and he had a student once ask him if it was important that he be in class that day, because he really wanted to go play tennis... WHAT IS THAT?!?!

lastly, you said "I know these are sweeping generalizations".... but really, from what i've witnessed in the past four years (and i went to a private liberal arts college in upstate NY)... it may not be such a sweeping generalization... we've been coddled and protected and we're lazy and whiny (well, not me so much, but lotsa my peers)... there were those of us who actually did want to study and learn and do the work... but there's tons more who just want to complain and find a way around the work...

i can't really comment on how things are in spain 'cause my time there has been limited... but I think that on the whole there's a greater sense of responsibility there... people take responsibility and deal with the consequences of their actions in Spain much more so than we're willing to do here... it's very frustrating sometimes... people here seem to be very eager to blame someone else... to pass the buck...

i don't mean to stomp on my home... but there are some things that just don't always add up... and it shouldn't be bad to say so, right?

hope this was considered as a positive contribution to the topic?!?!

vieve

(anyone realize what the passing grade is at this point? for state tests??? in NY i think it's dropped to 65.... CRAZY!!!)