Hello,

I just wanted to talk about being gay in Spain. I have heard that it is difficult and as a gay male myself, I guess that would be my biggest fear about living there.

I do not define myself by being gay...actually, it is a really small part of my life...really small part and some people wouldn't know it. I had some fun in Chueca and L'Eixample in Barcelona but what I was told is that although the gay life is thriving in Madrid and Barcelona, being gay really isn't an option. It is more like a person has a "roommate" not a boyfriend...or something to that effect...

The people I was studying with were cool with me....

Any observations from both gays and non-gays are welcome! Gays and non-gays? Let me rephrase that...i would love to hear all observations about people's perspectives on gays in Spain. Even if you hate gays, feel free to respond!

Thanks.

Bri
Are gays welcomed at a Madridman party?

Don't be silly, Brien. EVERYONE is welcome!

While I'm not gay, I understand that Spain, for the most part, is a gay-friendly country. I hate using this term "gay-friendly", but I guess it makes a point -- maybe "gay-tolerant" is better?? Not sure. Anyway, I think most Spaniards, at least those under 40 years old, probably have at least one gay friend. Also, I don't have any gay friends in Spain so I can't say with any authority how "out" they are there.

I know we've had other travelers going to Spain who asked about "Gay-Life" there, but since they weren't residents I don't think we have any past postings which could help you. Hopefully you'll get some other responses, maybe from a few of the Spaniards regsitered here.

Saludos, MadridMan

I have the idea that almost everybody is gay tolerant, specially women, but maybe from the gay side could be seen different, because some language or actitudes could be not politically correct. Specially language can be a little bit gay-hurting sometimes, although without intention. I don't know of anybody of my environment being gay and I think it's something that people prefer to hide in places that you share with people not so close to you like the job or the University, ...

It is funny that you mention this. I have been surveying old threads about racism in Spain, and found them very unfair, since I don`t think racism is a too worrying matter in Spain (not yet). Homophobia and sexism, on the other hand, are quite strong.
You will find still, from time to time, homophobic jokes in the media. You won`t see any homosexual couple showing their affection in public. I am 26, and have never found anyone in my life who openly defined himself as a homosexual. Most of the times, people bear a confused combination of "yeah, I respect gays, but don`t let them get too close to me".
As I am heterosexual, maybe my vision is not accurate, but through the web I have attained first-hand information about how hard it is living as a gay person here. First of all, you can only hear that word "gay" in politically correct media. The most common way to call homosexuals is still "[censored]".
No one will beat on you, or insult you (well, maybe, but you can find that kind of people all over the world). It is something more subtle. The fact is, homosexuals tend to lock themselves into the guetto. I think they feel threatened.

c.c.--thank you for posting this response. i think it's important to see things you are not used to seeing, so your post has really opened my eyes about this topic. i spent most of my time in madrid in chueca and during the gay pride week no less, so i have no idea what "normal" is in madrid. it struck me that everyone was having a good time and being very open, but i now know that i was probably taking this as normal behavior and not what is actually customary social behavior. can i just add though that the gay/bisexual/transgender community that i had contact with while in chueca were the sweetest, most open and sincere people i met while there and very open about their sexuality. but then of course, i was at gay-owned and operated businesses where people probably felt safer to be this way.

What an excellent post, Brian. Thanks for the pride and courage to put this thread out there. As you can see, and I'm still quite a junion member of this site, MM has once again pointed out that EVERYONE is welcome in this message-board.

I would really hope for all of us in our community (here at MadridMan's) that many more Spaniard participants would continue this thread and offer their CANDID and honest thoughts on this important topic.

To me, Spain is an amazingly TEXTURED country and culture with regards to this thread's theme of "GAYS."

Look at some of the most widely popular Spanish movie-culture...Drag queens continue to pop up, and the passion of the Spanish would naively cause many other nationals to wonder just how accepting the Spanish are of Gays.

Most of my Spanish friends consider Spain to be a "conservative" nation. On the other hand, one made a most interesting point...

"...many in Spain (over a certain age) experienced first hand what (Franco) oppression can do. I think because of this, even if a Spaniard doesn't personally respect gays, they probably have a better ability to tolerate and TRY to understand/accept (that there are many different ways people need/are/have to most comfortably live thier lives - are examples of true and sincere humans)..."

I would hope this thread flourishes...responses (both possitive AND negative) from Spaniards in this community would certainly give a three dimensional picture of Spanish culture.

After all, if the culture is truly conservative and traditional (as it most definitely is!), how do gay themes keep showing up in widly popular Spanish movies...

Right back at 'ya Sheba...by the way, miss ya sweetie! My own month-long stay in Spain last summer (during Orgullo, mind you) was tainted pre-visit by fear. I found it to be entirely without reason. Unless you are completely "out there" (and I mean this in the context of a complete flamer who is only into the club circuit and being all "pass the queso, oh by the way, I'M GAY!!!", you should have no problems in the major parts of Spain, much as is the case in any metropolitan area. My friends whom I met while in Madrid and Granada all said that though many in Spain are conservative and Catholic (not to start a religion discussion), that many are "Catholic by birth" (direct translated quote). Meaning that religion, though an important part of life, is not the dominant thought-bubble in most urban people's lives. They go to church for baptism, etc., and that's about it.
Now, as for being out, my impression was that outside of Chueca, it just wasn't an issue. While I was there, one of the politicized issues was domestic partnerships (part of EU citizenship perhaps). I didn't get the impression that this was simply a matter of coincidental timing with the Pride festival.
My friends, some gay, some straight, some in-between (if we have to categorize ), was that those people who oppose it would keep it to themselves or, at worst, keep it at the chismes level.
And who hasn't dealt with that, gay or straight, or (insert adjective here)?
I felt completely safe the entire time I was there, and though I am not what I would consider a flamer (though I suppose entirely open to interpretation), I didn't feel it was an issue even when the topic came up.
My teachers at the school I was simply wished me happiness, in my pursuit of happiness, again, a (weak) translation.
Outside of urban areas, I can't speak. But in Madrid, it seemed that one's sexuality was, at worst, a non-issue.
When it came up, again, a non-issue.
To comment on some earlier posts, the chismes while I was there was surrounding a certain choreographer (openly gay) and a very well-known male singer. Nothing at all different from here in the states.
Go, have fun, be safe, use a condom, and most of all, the same common sense you would use in ANY major city.
(and check out the club WHY NOT?, the best Spanish-music whatever-goes club in Chueca).

I'm VERY proud that we can discuss this topic in a mature, honest manner. I'd also like to caution the readers of this thread about the opinions of gays from non-Spaniards talking about "Being Gay in Spain".

The standards by which we, the world community, judge homosexuality and the perception of homosexuals in Spain probably is quite different from those who are Spaniards and actually living IN Spain. We should be respectful of "the law of the land" as well... "when in Rome"... and all these other sayings which might be fitting here. Maybe it's "RIGHT" and maybe it's "WRONG", but it's the way it is. Hmmm.. I'm tempted to delete my entire post now.

Sure, it's my right to voice my opinion about how I think things should be and how I think people should be treated in Spain or other regions of the world. But who am I to walk into a Spaniard's home and tell the "housewife" of the family to "Stand up and demand equality in your household! Demand your husband carry 50% of the workload!"? Is it really my business? Is it really my place to tell people HOW to live their lives?

Spain has to make the changes appropriate for them, for their culture, and not be forced or coerced or shamed into doing what the world community demand they do. It's the same in any part of the world. And, unfortunately (in MY opinion), the "MORALS" of the USA, in particular, should not be seen as the morals of the "civilized world" JUST BECAUSE (if true) we have the most power, the most money, the most influence, the most "intelligence" (CIA/FBI-speaking), or will withold monies from any country who defies US(A). WHEW I'd better send/save this before I change my mind and delete it all.

Saludos, MadridMan

(NOTE: The opinions stated by MadridMan are his and his alone, whether right or wrong, and not necessarily those of the "moral/ethical majority" -- "can't we all just get along?")

[ 01-30-2002: Message edited by: MadridMan ]

MadridMan,

Well said. I for one am glad that you didn't delete it. We owe each other respect, as members of the MadridMan family.

Wolf (Who has learned that the only intolerance there should be is against views that indicate intolerance. I hope that makes sense.)

Mmm, I don't think one has to tread to carefully when it comes to voicing an opinion on "the law of the land". If you don't like something you should say so. Spain is a pluralistic society made up of many cultures and subcultures. And outside opinions are also welcome. I'm not Spanish myself, although I've been here almost 12 years, but when I don't agree with certain aspects of my adopted home - such as sexism or homophobia, I'll say so. I might offend the conservative right, but I do that wherever I go, Spain or Ireland. And besides a great many Spanish people would support my critique of certain aspects of Spanish culture. There are after all many active women's and gay/lesbian organizations throughout the country.
What I'm saying is that in a forum such as this, I don't think anyone should watch what they have to say.
Back to the topic (by the way, hi Sheba and Druship), Spain is, by and large, quite a tolerant country, and well on the way to recognising equal rights for the homosexual community. It will take some time, but it's firmly on the political agenda, and even the ruling party, not known for its enthusiasm for socially liberal legislation would never say openly that it is against gay rights per se. The social climate has left them no other option but to drag their feet and sit on the fence on the issue.
Outside the realm of politics, most people are rather tolerant. Spanish people are not sanctimonious by nature, and despite what they feel, will not openly criticise others. The worst reaction you're likely to encounter as an openly-gay person is mild amusement and often tiresome curiosity, or expressions of the type, "Such a nice young gentleman, it's a shame really...". I say all this by the way from personal experience.