Well my friends we shouldn't give Fernando such a hard time. I think that the majority of us U.S. Citizens who visit this message board have taken some offence at being sterotyped by the movies we produce. Although Fernandos examples weren't all that great, he's still right to a large extent. Our movies DO show the rest of the world what's going on in the United States in the way of the popular mind, and societal problems. No one wants to hear that they can be generalized as individuals, and I don't think Fernando was trying to say that, however; our society can certainly be exposed to the rest of the world through our art reflecting our lives and society. Independence day is a very bad example, Which makes it easy for anyone with a rebutle to pick Fernandos statment apart about presidents being heroic very easyly. But something that hasn't been mentioned is what about movies like, American Beauty, or American Pie, or Boys in the Hood? What about moives that reflect society, and are movies we can relate to? There are movies aimed to portray everyone from the normal high schooler, to the young men and women who grow up the the ghetto. After all The United States is the cinematic powerhouse of the world, and the pioneer in using film as art to reflect life why would we find it peculiar that peoples of other nations know us better than we know them. Are we all gun wielding hero-types? No. But Fernando didn't say that, he said that the movies give him and other Spaniards an idea of how we are, which I'd aggree with, and so should the majority of the rest of us. How many times have we gone to a teen flick, or watched a drama and were able to relate? Or felt that the film was hitting close to home, at least in some small way? Just think about it.

GREAT!!!!!

I'm sitting by now, 5:07 in the morning, asleep, reading the recent post about this matter.

This time I have to say that both you have understood what I wanted to say and that you have given me an insight in american society and reasons for the topics and stereotypes I told you (and that I didn't know).

Thank you very much

ReadMadOllie: Yes, that was what I mean, the movies give as an aproximate idea of how your society and customs are. Just that. Of course it doesn't mean that all americans think alike or are alike. Fortunately you have a rich variety of points of view.

Mel-knee and LaMaestra: I knew the resentment toward mexicans was because of the way you manage helth insurances. Think that in Spain it is managed in a different way (we all pay a percentage of our income and have the right to use the health resources "free", the inmigrants have the same right).

Mel-knee, your first post is a pearl. Thank you for taking the time to write it. As you have guessed I was not implying (maybe I expressed myself wroongly) that the american stereotype is how all americans are.

I was just pointing my, probably not accured, impressions and conclusions of my short trip there. I realize how much it left me to discover of the USA.

In regard of policemen: I tend to believe that they are so blunt because the crime they have to fight is much agresive and dangerous than in Spain (my three encounters were in New York airport, in Philadelphia and in Washington DC). I firmly believe that the less guns there are, the better for all the population (though I tell you that if I were isolated in a countryside in the USA I would have a gun to defend myself, at least from the animals).

Great explanation of the concept of president the movies present us all

Let me say that I really feel something is changing in the States. If all such delicate matters are being discussed (restrictions on arms, death penalty, health insurance, racial tensions,...) is because the american society is a dynamic one, which should tend to develop in a better way of coexistence between yourselves.

The better USA goes, the better the world would be, that's for sure.

Fernando,
I don't think Health Care is free in Spain.I think many people have to pay for their medicine in Spain, no? (just trying to dispel a myth)
Interesting note: before going to Spain I saw "Carne Tremula" "Live Flesh." Imagine what I thought about Spain after seeing this? My parents went last summer to Spain for the first time....I wouldn't let them see "Not without my Mother," before they went. I didn't want to give them a bad immpression of Spain.

Hey, can anyone join in this discussion? I just got back from three great weeks in Spain, with my wife, daughter and grandaughters (5 & 8). I am bilingual (Spanish not Castillian). I used to travel to Madrid a lot 30 years ago, and as a transport pilot also got to go to a lot of other countries. What I find funny about this discussion is the great similarities between americans and spaniards. For example, both cultures are much more ethnocentric than other europeans. both are least likely to speak another language. I think to understand the reasons for the differences between americans and europeans you have to look at the differences in both history and infrastructure. In spain population density is much greater. In the US the rural population is much greater. Public transportation is available to fewer people, etc. ...

Great post, we are VERY similiar and yet our differences are very complimentary.
My beautiful Spanish wife and I fit together like pieces of a puzzle.
(woops, the film was "All about my mother.")

Just to clarify the Immigration issue, the US is made up people from all over the world. The majority of Americans descend from Europe. Currently, 15 % is Black, 16% Hispanic, 59% Anglo-European, 6% Asian and 4% other.
Ilegal immigrants come from many countries, not only Mexico. If the US really wanted to stop the flow of ilegal people coming across the border, it can do it over night. The greatest country in the world with the best technology and military weapons,of course!
However, many politicians & business people choose to look the other way. The US will not survive without the cheap labor from south of the border. Many companies depend on this labor in order to financially survive. THE ONLY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN AN ILEGAL RESIDENT AND ONE THAT IS A US CITIZEN IS THAT ONE DOES NOT FILL OUT AN INCOME TAX FORM AT THE END OF THE YEAR. However, Ilegals pay taxes every time they purchase goods and services. They pay 8 to 10 % of sales taxes. They also pay property taxes & taxes when they purchase a new vehicle. Taxes are also withhold from their pay checks. The US goverment collects Millions of Dollars from ilegal residents living in the US.
Many employers choose Mexicans, because they are Hard working people who never complain.
Mexicans are a mixture of Spanish and Indian. Some are pure Indian and others are pure Spanish. But the majority of Mexicans are Mestizos.
Some Mexican-Americans are native people of what is America today. For example in Texas, many Mexicans are natives of Texas.
They first became Spanish citizens, then Mexican citizens, then Texan Citizens and later when Texas joined the union they became American Citizens.
So, there is a difference between Mexicans and Mexican-Americans.

Although I knew what you expose in general terms, your post made it much more clear. Thanks.

Tejano, are you suggesting we nuke the illegals? Or should we pull all our troops together and have them link arms at the vast border between the US and Mexico? Unless we dedicated all of our resources to the matter, we'd still have illegals. If nothing else, we'd have those who came in legally on, say, a tourist visa and just stayed forever. There are indeed businesses that would have a hard time keeping their profits up without undocumented workers, but the enforcement laws against the hiring of illegals would turn the US into a Big Brother State in no time at all. The solution, really, is to have Mexico (since they are the prime suppliers of workers) improve its economy enough so that people aren't forced to leave in order to survive.

If you mean that illegals are the same as legals in terms of their humanity, you're right...everyone's the same. However, the situation is a bit like saying the people you asked into your home are the same as those who broke in while you were at the store. Perhaps you would have invited them in, but the fact is, they entered illegally. Don't tell me that the folks from Oaxaca, for example, used to live here and so they should have the right to travel freely...it doesn't work like that! They come here precisely because it is the US, not because it used to be Mexico.

Yes, illegals pay taxes...maybe. If they work for someone who really looks the other way...housekeeping, babysitters, even some landscaping or day jobs...no one writes a check, the employer doesn't report the worker and no social security is paid. In AZ there is no tax on food. If you buy a used car from a private seller, there is no sales tax. Garage sale clothing...no tax. School kids here get two free meals a day, their uniforms (if required), free books, and school supplies...no sales tax paid on that. Income may be so low that little or no tax is paid even for those who have fake social security numbers. In theory what you say sounds perfectly correct...in practice it is not always quite like that.

Perhaps in Texas the hospitals get money for treating illegals. Not so here. Our two trauma centers are both in such dire straits now because of unpaid bills that they may have to shut down. If that occurs, all our trauma cases would have to be sent to Phoenix! You know what it would cost to pay for your emergency room treatment...multiply that by the number of cases that come through border areas. No tax money goes into this...the US government doesn't pay, and Mexico sure doesn't. Those who are here legally can qualify for our state health care program, and taxes do pay for that, but those who are illegal are costing the private hospitals money that simply is not reimbursed.

Here in Arizona we have a damned if we do, damned if we don't plan. La Migra tightened up the borders at city crossings, and the number of illegal entries dropped. Then the illegals...who never stopped being hungry or needy...started crossing in rural areas: the desert. Well, we don't want people to DIE, so suggestions went out that we put up signs to warn people that they were entering the desert. That didn't help. Then human rights groups decided to put water tanks out in the desert marked with giant flags so illegals could find the water. La Migra is not allowed to pick up anyone at a watering station (sort of a red light, green light thing.) That wasn't enough. Now we have communication centers with solar panels to light the things up so illegals can call for a ride to town if things get too rough! If we really try to stop the entrance of people (nearly impossible given the size and terrain of the border) we are criticized for being heartless!

La maestra (who can fully understand both sides of the issue, but can't come up with a really intelligent solution.)

While this is a very interesting discussion.... Reminder of Topic Name: Being an American in Spain. Thanks.

Oops! :o Yes, we have gotten a bit off the topic...though not as far off as all that! Let's see if I can tie it back together: I think Americans in Spain (and elsewhere in the world) are expected to have solutions to problems that no one else has. I hate to relate things to movies (we can get way off on that again) but the US tends to take the role of Obi Wan! I think Spaniards (and others!) are shocked to find that we DON'T know how to solve problems...our own or anyone else's. We are a wealthy, powerful country, but we have the same issues of poverty, crime, inequality, prejudice, immigration, human rights violations, education, etc. as every other country in the world. As Americans, we have an idea of what we should be doing, but sometimes it seems we can't win for losing! A lot of what comes across as prejudice is tied closely to a frustration with feeling out of control and unable to "fix" everything.

I am always fascinated by the kinds of questions I get from people while I'm in Spain. "Why is it that you Americans...?" and then a really good question on a highly charged, debatable issue. How can we be a free country if smokers aren't free to smoke? How can we be a nation of immigrants if we restrict immigration? How can we be champions of human rights and have human rights violation occurring all the time? We must have a really terrific agent out there somewhere portraying us as being a whole lot wiser than any of us really are!

La maestra (who hopes she has gotten back to the topic )

[ 08-21-2001: Message edited by: la maestra ]