We can only report on those things we have observed or on our own experience. But if we put together all the 'bits and pieces' of information posted on this thread, we may get a fairly accurate picture of what being an American in Spain is like and what people of Spain think of Americans.

Perhaps some of the Spanish people used to envy Americans because of our love affair with the automobile and what appeared to be our higher standard of living as portrayed in our movies. But I think that is all in the past - 'Quality of life' is what it's all about; and any shortcoming in quantity of things is more than made up by quality of life for the average Spanish family.

Most homes in Spain have washing machines and most other modern appliances. In July I stayed with a cousin in Barcelona (1st time since the '92 Olympics). I remembered using the washer back then. We hung the clothes out on a clothes line in the interior court yard of the apartment building as many other people in that building in a fashionable neighborhood (Pi y Maragall, near Sagrada Familia).
Our relatives in Madrid do the same thing in their upscale neighborhood (Almeda de Osuna) although the washing is done by Pili, their 'muchacha.' In their vacation home in the province of Huelva, the routine is the same.
The people who use laundromats are the same as those who use laundromats in the U.S: students, renters, backpackers and people who either can't afford their own appliance or don't have room for one.

The people in Spain (and other European countries) get more vacation time, better retirement benefits and generally a more 'laid back' lifestyle than we have in the U.S. Who wouldn't want to live in such an environment??

[ 09-03-2001: Message edited by: Eddie ]

The big difference in washing machines seems to be that it is standard equipment for apartments in Spain (at least in Sevilla). Most apartments had a washing machine and an interior clothesline to hang the clothes. Even missmadrid's apartment came with a strange washer. Most apartments in the US have neither of these things. The apartment complex may have a room with coin operated washers and dryers or it may not. My building in NYC does not, so I have to wash the clothes in a nearby laundromat. When I lived in Spain, I never went to a laundromat (though I did once in Madrid on a recent trip).

question... who is caminante,,,,,, how do you know i have a washer in my home, have you visited me? i have had alot of people visit me through this message board and i was just curious who you were, or did someone tell you i had a funky washing machine in house!!!!!

Silly! You posted your washing machine horror story in one of your updates!!

Let's look a little deaper at this issue.
I understand(wolf, feel free to correct me)that a big reason for Spain's so called "quality of life," stems from the Franco government. (stop the gasps Spaniards and hear me out) People are able to go home for lunch because factory tenament housing was created to support the Franco regime. With Franco's consent, American(via the US military) and other outside influences of modern life began to enter Spain. Now, you can find malls in most cities, Micky d's, Pizza Hut, and even Spanish fast food(can't remember the name though) The "new wealth", pijos if you will, are wanting bigger housing and the townhouse market is skyrocketing. More Spaniards then ever are buying cars and the traffic in Madrid is just as bad as LA. More Spaniards than ever have moved out of their "home" city to find work. Less and less spaniards are going home for lunch and more and more are eating fast food. Spaniards along with Italians watch more TV than any other European country. Spaniards also perform more plastic surgery than any other country in Europe(but not penelope I think)Although still lower than the US, violent crime is increasing dramitically in Spain.
Now, my question is the following: Do Spaniards HAVE to live this way. Or, are they choosing to, just like here in the US.

This thread is getting too long; but I couldn't let those (IMHO) inaccurate remarks go by without replying:

Traffic in Madrid is not as bad as L.A, it's worse, especially considering that you have four (rather than two) 'rush hours' a day.

As for crime: Most of my Spanish relatives and Spanish people I know have never been victims of violent crime. They know about it because they read newspapers and watch TV. They take the same precautions we do in our home cities - there are certain places you don't go, especially at night. 40-years ago when I lived in Madrid, violent crime was almost unknown - but with large numbers of 'illegals,' and drugs, things have gotten worse.

There were numerous 'incursions' in Spain by European Tourists long before any American Military presence there. Many were Germans, Luftwaffe Pilots returning to visit a WWII R&R facility on Spain's Mediterranean coast where they had spent time during the war.

French & Italian tourists took advantage of the really cheap prices at Spain's resorts.

Do you imply that before the Franco regime there was no afternoon 'siesta' in Spain?
Wrong! Franco's reconstruction of Spain's infrastructure after 4-years of Civil War had to include some residential structures because of all that were destroyed during that conflict; but it had little to do with the soul of the Spanish people (or their attitude).

Which is it: Spanish or Italians who watch the most TV? And you don't mention portable (cell) phones - I think the Spanish people have some kind of record there.

Cosmetic surgery is inexpensive by American standards in Spain. Why wouldn't people use that price advantage?

[ 09-04-2001: Message edited by: Eddie ]

Toddy,

Spain was one of the main industrial powers in Europe right before Franco's dictatorship. It was after UK, Germany, and France, of course, but the distance between them was even shorter than nowadays. Mining (wolframio, plus the remains of iron), metal works, ship building, guns industry, ..., in the basque country, textile industry in Catalonia, are only examples of it.

Franco's war destroyed the country.

First three years of bombings and sabotages made the industry simply phisically dissapear. Unlike the rest of Europe, because of Franco, we were not helped with the Marshall plan, thus being very difficult for the country to find the resources to develop, from the outstanding poverty his war against the legal government left the country in. My parents still remember having real hunger.

I must admit that from the 60s' on, with the help of some unknown world size economists belonging to hated sect (by me too) Opus Dei, they did a real good job with economy (helped by the tourism industry and Europe´s proximity), making us come to have half the incomes our neighbours had, in the 80s'.

But I being born in 60s', can remember the 80s' as a uncredibly modernizing age. Yes, it's just opposite to what you say. We filled the technology gap just from the dead of Franco on.

About fast food, I consider Mac Donalds, Pizza hut and so on rubbish, like many of my people, so we would be better without them. I don't think they are a measure of development.But, once more, they grew from the 80s' on.

It is not the "newly rich" pijos who buy house, for there are no new rich pijos for years, many of the works are "rubbish contracts" that barely afford to buy a small old flat with a lot of sacrifice and 30 years to pay. These are the new buyers that skyrocket the always skyrocketing market, whose bubble will no doubt soon be punctured.

A proof that you don't know spaniard's behaviours is that, if we can not eat at home, we don't (but for a very small minority) eat fast food, but a "menu del dia". Who would, if you can have a threee courses food with wine or beer for 5$?

As for the crime rate, I myself have informed in the forum that there is SOME violence and crime, not to let people believe this is heaven, BUT I also say that no matter that crime has grown a lot this late years due to the kind of inmigration we are receiving, it is still, according to the news and the reports of N americans in these forums much lower than the average N. american city. There is no neighbourhood in Madrid that I don't dare to walk by at night, may be not as safe as othersm, but there are not any really dangerous for your person. Only a couple of huthamlets far outside Madrid, where drug addicts or gypsies live are really dangerous and I wouldn't walk there.

I read in todays newspaper Madridymas that in Madrid (Or it was Spain?)- Someone?- there have been two slabbed person per day (double than past year). Compare this to a 4.000.000 N Am. city (maybe it is too much). And most of these things happen between LAm people. Todays' a Dominican guy was killed by other Dominican with a brolen glass when arguing about who had a sit.

Ignacio

I have never been harrassed as much as on my last trip to Granada. Of course, I visitited the most popular turist places like Alhambra etc. and you can expect some of it, but this time it was worse. When one is surrounded by 8-10 angry women, trying to force your hand to 'read it' and men pulling your leg with some force in order shine your shoes, one feels just as unvelcome,as a person who is robbed at gun point in some friendly neighborhood mall while using ATM machine.

I wonder why so many houses in Spain have steelbars in all the windows??

That's the gypsies, they prefer living this way than having a egular work. What should we do? Exterminate them? Imprison them?

But you can go to Morocco or Havana, to mention a couple of places I know, and you will learn what being harassed is (day and night, and waiting for you at the entrance of your hotel).

About the steel bars, they are popular in the south, itis a tradition, Haven't you seen films of mexicans or spanish in the old times speaking to their lovers behind those bars. To preserve their virtue (in the old times, of course!). In my parents homeland, in the North, they don´t close the doors in the day no matter if they are (often) working in the fields or barns (fields use to be 0 to 20 miles away), and nothing happens unless gypsies pass by taking a couple of chickens and some TVs and radios (happened several times along the years, fortunately not very often).

Ignacio

Hello Ignacio,
I guess you would be the right person to ask since you are a native of Spain, or anyone that can answer my quetion:
I've studied Spain from Economics, Politics, Religion and culture, but just curious, where do the Gypsies originate from?
Where is their homeland? Is it the south of Spain or France or do they come from Northern Africa? Nomads? Are they Christian?
It seems like they have been an ethinic group disliked by many Europeans and other groups around the world.
Many bad stories are heard from Gypsies, that they steal, cheat, and much more. Why hasn't the Spanish Government done something about their behavior?
Have they assimilated to the main stream Spanish way of wife or do they still maintain their own seperate culture?