ElGato/Lobo, I commend you for your smoking etiquette! If more smokers followed your lead, I suspect non-smokers would be a lot less hostile. I have not too fond memories of my smoking sister-in-law following me from room to room during my first pregnancy. I kept telling her that smoke made me nauseous, and she kept following me, telling me that it was a free country and she had the right to smoke AND to visit me and that I should just deal with it! I have to admit that I have been heard to shout "It's about time!" when new anti-smoking measures come out...largely, I think, because I grew up surrounded by people who forgot that I have as much right not to smoke as they have TO smoke. Here in AZ we have pretty tight no smoking regulations, but they do not extend to the outdoors. It is perfectly ok to smoke in the outdoor areas of restaurants, for example, even though restaurants INSIDE usually don't have smoking areas at all.

I agree 100% with you on the perfume bit. It enfuriates me to see a woman give herself one more good spritz of eau de mouffette cologne just before boarding my plane. I think a good dose of common sense and courtesy would go a long way!

la maestra,

I think all restaurants will end up non-smoking, and I couldn't agree with it more. I enjoy smelling the aromas of food much more than smoke.

Since my wife and I only smoke outside, and have actually shut down smoking in cars as well, we have found our clothes smell fresher too.

Your sister-in-law was totally wrong. Coming into your home, and acting that way, is beyond rude. It's totally unacceptable behavior. She was imposing her values over yours... under your roof. She needs to be taken down a notch or two, taught what the words "respect for others" means.

Yes! The plane ride. Eight and a half hours non-stop, Madrid to Chicago, with a woman sitting in the row in front of us who must have used a gallon of skunk oil as perfume, and behind us, another one, who had a totally conflicting perfume was too much.

Talk about something that ruins an appetite. A skunk fight!

El Gato

ElGato/Lobo, my sister-in-law is beyond reason. When my father-in-law, a long time smoker, developed emphysema she continued to smoke while visiting him until he started to use oxygen (I guess she didn't want to be blown up!). When her husband, also a smoker, got lung cancer, she continued to smoke EVEN THOUGH her husband and the doctors told her his lungs couldn't take it. I think she may have cut down now that SHE has cancer. These days I would have had the power of public opinion behind me; 25 years ago I was considered an anti-social oddball and her behavior was considered appropriate because she "loved me and wanted to be with me."

I have seen some signage around lately reminding women that their fragrance is not alluring to EVERYONE...particularly, as I recall, in doctors' offices. I don't often praise the French, but their philosphy is that perfume should be so discrete that you have to get downright cozy with a woman in order to tell for sure she is wearing perfume at all!

La maestra (who tends to wear the fragrance of bacon and eggs, garlic and onions sauteed in olive oil, or chocolate chip cookies!)

la maestra,

Ah! You wear the scents most likely to attract men with good taste... Food!

It's nice to hear that the French are pushing towards a lower keyed scent. That's quite a departure from the old days, when they pushed spritzing it on until you were soaking wet...

I'm sorry to hear about your in-laws. It's a shame they didn't learn.

El Gato (A Wolf in a cat skin coat...)
By the way, I don't kill the cats, just steal their coats.....

ElGato/Lobo, the woman who gave us a tour of a perfume factory in Paris was very clear that fragrance was (now, you really have to imagine a French accent here to get the full effect!) an intimate thing, like an embrace. It is part of a woman's mystery. You must put it only in these five places...

The five places did not include airports or offices!

The key word here is respect. I don´t mind anyone smoking as long as it doesn´t disturb me. I´ve chosen not to smoke (quitted for several years ago) and a smoker has to respect that. In the same way I have to respect the Spanish custom. I can ask politely the smoker not to belch out the smoke right on my face if possible, but if the person refuses, I can´t do anything about that (except for leaving the place maybe).

A short commentary on the non smoking regulations in Europe: the laws are not equally liberal all over the continent. For example in Finland smoking has been forbidden in public places for more than twenty years!

Tia (who thinks that kissing a smoker is like kissing an ashtray)

El gato y la maestra:

Because of what I said before, the fact that years ago telling somebody who was smoking in your face please not to do it made a rude person out of you (Yes, it is true!), I could not agree more with Lamaestra.

Elgato:

I said: "Following your line, ..., drugs should be free, because we don't have the right to forbid them to people".

This is not putting words in your mouth, it taking a position to the limit to show (in case it was) that it is absurd. In any case, it is obvious that it's me who is developing this line of logic.

About my last paragraph, I am not assuming you are anarchist or whatever. It is MY personal opinion about it, I am for democracy, but I am dissappointed once and again with politicians who do not do what they promise. I believe in democracy because no system that I know is better, but it doesn't mean I consider it perfect.

I am sorry if you have felt disturbed by the written above, but, as you can see, I never wrote you think or mean one or other thing.

Unless my English is worse than I think. In this case, I offer you my excuses.

As for the rest, I didn't read carefully enough the previous, or maybe I let some of the rage of 38 years suffering rude - spanish - smokers. But it is true that the streets is not a real problem for my/our health.

Reading what you write, you must really be a considerate person. But we non-smokers many times face a different kind of people. Nowadays, in the Metro - I mean in the platforms- , you can find people smoking, although it is a closed space, and it is forbidden. If you stare at them they give you a hostile look, so it is better not to argue and maybe fight (and so, lose your right).

The example of religions, as others, was only intended to show that what is good and bad, is different from what is forbidden or not. The last is for us to decide, and the equilibrium between liberties and safety/health is delicate, but up to us.

I was not referring to the smell of persons/clothes when I said the "smell" sickened me. I meant the smoke - In this case, it was my English that failed.

I would never vote for forbidding tobacco because of the smell of smokers, as I would'n forbid parfumes, no matter how horrid they were, no matter that I couldn't stand them, because they do not affect my health (again, open areas is different), for I believe in liberty, even if someone (parfume case) was disturbing me with her/his bad taste.

I have just read the last page of yesterday's newspaper Expansión.

I don't use to agree with this writer, but in this matter I do.

Unfortunately, the web page is not updated yet with his article.

He exposes some thought about liberalism (different from anarchism) of some of the most reputated spanish thinkers, and the attitude of distrust towards politicians:

- Miguel de Unamuno: 'A horrible thing is the moral suicide of individuals in behalf of the colectivity'

- Antonio Machado: 'Politics and culture have few times gone together in Spain'

- Pio Baroja: 'Politics are of no interest for me' 'It is difficult to find anything so vile, incompetent and useless as a spanish politician' 'We should not believe in great politicians. There aren't'

- Salvador de Madariaga: 'Without liberty there is not Man, nor Community, because the Man falls to the level of the beast, and Community to that of a herd'

[ 08-07-2001: Message edited by: Ignacio ]

Ignacio,

Those are all good quotes. I couldn't agree more. But Spain isn't alone in having a large number of politicos who are essentially worthless. We find the same thing in the U.S., and I'd venture that almost any country can say the same thing.

This is a quote that I really like;

Salvador de Madariaga: 'Without liberty there is not Man, nor Community, because the Man falls to the level of the beast, and Community to that of a herd'

It couldn't be said better.

I remember something that an old friend told me years ago. He was so disenchanted with politicians that he decided to run for the United States House of Representatives. He lost in his first try, but won the second time around.

"I am so tired of politicians who don't seem to realize that it shouldn't be a lifetime job. Senators and members of the House of Representatives should only be allowed to serve two terms each. I want to fight to make that a law."

He said that... to me. Now he's in his 4th term in Washington... As good as he is, at representing us, he votes party line, and has forgotten why he went there in the first place. It's become his occupation, and that's when they begin to forget who they represent.

El Gato

In Madrid, the best places to avoid smoke are the vegetarian restaurants, some train cars, museums, and outdoors.

Everywhere else people smoke incessantly, ignoring posted rules. This includes the WC, the subway station, bakery, everywhere.