I have heard a lot of similar comments about the French. I must have had an extraordinary experience, because people I met were so nice - the times when I went and didn't know how to speak French, and later when I did. Even on the busy streets of Paris, when I lived there, I always managed to get friendly (though not smiley) help from people. Occasionally, people dealing with the public were crotchety, but there always seemed to be a a nice french person around me ready to take my arm and point me in the right direction, even standing up for me with a nasty ticket agent once. The worst experiences I had traveling, were actually in Germany, although I just chalk that up to bad luck...

I do agree about the b.o. I never quite got used to it. In Salamanca, we would have to air out the classrooms after Spanish students had been in there, because the odor was really bad. Just not as much water there to wash and bath as often as we do. more expensive, etc.

[ 04-09-2001: Message edited by: Nicole ]

The only thing I will generalize about Spaniards is the b.o. thing...I totally agree with you on that one...I once paid over 10 U.S. dollars for a deoderant with anti-perspirant (only 3 years ago)...And the one request from my American friends still living in Madrid is Arid Extra Dry!!!
So remember to pack your anti-perspirant when travelling, especially in summer.

In some European countries (Spain & Portugal, for example) the cost of dry cleaning can be very high. People tend to wear their suits, etc. for a longer period of time before sending them to the cleaners. That could at least partially explain the preference for dark colors and that 'people smell.' I got used to it travelling in 3rd Class Rail compartments (8-people) over the years. But one Sunday, in Lisbon, I went to early Mass and the only other people in the Church were some older Portuguese women, all wearing black. The body odor was overwhelming - I thought I was going to be sick.
Permanent press and wash and wear don't seem to have ever 'caught on' there (although Levi's are very popular). Maybe it's because such imports cost so much more there.

I'm the first to admit that I am *not* a fashion-conscious person. I dress for comfort, and might as well have "American" stamped on my forehead every time I travel. Fashion is just one of those things that does not appeal to me, and an entire country of brown/black/navy struck me as pretty dull when I studied in Sevilla.

I will say that the b.o. thing bothered me a bit. Getting downwind of people at the wrong time of day could be torture!

I found a nice compromise with the Spanish guy I was dating at the time. He agreed to shower and change into clean clothes before coming to see me, and I agreed to wear tighter, more fashionable clothes and (gasp!) makeup. It worked out pretty well.

As for the French, I actually found them to be pleasant and helpful. My French is pretty bad, but the fact that I made the attempt seemed to help. Like a previous poster mentioned, they weren't "smiley", but still helpful. The only negative encounter I had was an irritated, impatient postal worker, but how many *happy* postal workers do you see anywhere?

I'm sorry for bringing up the B.O. idea...even though it sounds (or smells) like we've all had an "encounter" with it. It is the weirdest thing, since I didn't have the same problem in any Scandinavian or Baltic country...just in Spain and France, and to an extent Italy. Spain MUST [and I use that word lightly ] be great...or a stinky old lady on the bus might be enough to send us packing!

Anyway...I wanted to say to lamaestra, the last time I spent any time of note in France was 1995, so perhaps they've changed in 4-6 years. I hope so! Let me give you an exact quote, given to us by a hotel manager TWICE five weeks apart: "I'm sorry, but a reservation does not guarantee you a room." I'm not sure what it did guarantee me, other than a warm, fuzzy feeling until I got to the hotel...but that was just indicative of my two weeks in France. Nevertheless, it is after all a generalization...

Anyway...have a great day all! And spread on the anti-b.o.!

Is the black thing especially true of the cities in Spain? I know I travel to NYC alot for my job and people say the same thing about there.Though NYC isn't exactly a city full of typical Americans. As we travel out to smaller towns in Spain will we see perhaps more colour and less high fashion?

I certainly agree that young Spanish men wear an awful lot of black and brown jumpers with black jeans and it seems that no Spanish girl can step out of the house unless she's wearing tight (lycra?) black trousers. One thing I have noticed that's changed since I started going to Spain regularly about 9 years ago however is girls' shoes. It used to amaze me that every girl wore white trainers almost without exception - there seems to be a lot more variety now though. I guess the similarity in clothes is explained by the relatively small number of shops (Mango, Benetton and Zara for the girls and Pull & Bear, Springfield and Massimo Dutti for the boys). The Spanish also sensibly generally wouldn't dream of spending the unbelievable amounts people shell out for designer clothes over here (in the UK), apart from Lacoste polo shirts which you do see a lot of.

Always remember there's a difference between deodorants and anti-perspirants. The majority of what you find in Spanish stores is deodorants. Anti-perspirants haven't caught on as much, and they offer better protection than deodorants do, especially when it's hot outside.

The fact is, deodorants wear out faster than anti-perspirants, so that "fresh feeling" doesn't necessarily last all day. What you're smelling in most cases, on the metro, is a person whose deodorant gave up before their day ended.

As for the usage of hot water. Gas can be expensive in Spain. Exchanging tanks can be a chore, and climbing several sets of stairs with that tank slung across your shoulders can reduce a lot of people to jello before they reach their flat. Keep this in mind as to why they may skip a shower once in a while. Especially if they run out of bottled gas somewhere along the line, trying to heat water. Not everyone has piped in natural gas as an option.

Wolf

When I was in Spain, one thing that I noticed was most of the Spanish women whether young, adult, old or even senior citizens, they were all well-dressed. They may not have the variety of colors we see in the U.S.A, they looked so presentable. As my daughter would say, Spanish women are well-maintained physically. The reason, most women wear tight pants is that they have the figure for it. My daughter during her 6-months stay, she also wore tight pants because she has the figure. Luckily, my body figure allowed me to buy clothes from Mango, Zara and Amichi. The style of the clothes really fits your body. One must have a small waist and Jennifer Lopez's back. When my daughter returned from Spain, her schoolmates had to adjust seeing her in tight pants. While I was in Madrid, I believe I only saw 1 Spanish woman who was on the plump side but not obese. When I returned from Spain and back to work, I realized I was back in the good U.S.A, suddenly, I was surrounded by men/women who were on the heavy side.

I agree with Nicole that women from Cordoba are on the plump side compared to Seville and Madrid.

With regards to "B.O.", the places I went with my daughter somehow, we did not encounter the "B.O.". We took the bus traveling along Andalucia and the "B.O." was not there. I met several of her Spanish friends, they all did not have "B.O." I have not been in the northern side of Spain,is "B.O." a general thing there? I am just wondering because during my Andalucia trip, this so called "B.O." was not a common thing. Honestly, when I take the Metro train from work to home, everyday, I encounter someone with "B.O."

[ 04-11-2001: Message edited by: mclarke ]

The reason Paris is supposed to be such a fashion mecca goes back to the days of haute couture, little boutiques that would outfit a woman head to toe, and the woman's job was to look beautiful. This was before fashion became mass marketed. But now, Paris isn't seen as THE HQ for fashion. Today Milan, London, and New York are important. Designers have created bridge labels (DKNY, Anne Klein II, ect.) and licence other companies to make accesories and stuff to help their companies meet the bottom line; exclusivity isn't as prevelant. Paris and haute couture and all that aren't as important as they used to be.

The thing about the dark clothing- i have another suggestion about why that is - I've read somewhere that the French or Spanish have a few really nice things and wear them again and again and change the look with accessories. Wearing generally dark clothing assures everything matches, and as mentioned before, no visible stains. This way, they always look good; quality not quantity.

Hmmm. An afterthought about the BO: So if we don't smell, will that seperate us as foreigners? (Notwithstanding our other obvious signs such as body language, posture, style of dress, accent, attitude,ectera.) Just a joke