Do you know what is really sad? I was watching TVE International and I saw a bunch of ilegal inmigrants DEMANDING our goverment to give them papers and jobs. If the goverment denied the papers they will lock theirselves and starve to death. There are not jobs for averybody in Spain, what right do they have to demand papers and jobs? They are ILEGAL. As soon as they get papers the Spaniards have to pay for their Social Security, Health, unemployment... Is that fair?
But, I have to say that inmigration is world problem, the rich countries have exploted the poor countries and have permitted the corrupt goverments to bring their countries to the missery, now the people that live in those countries have to look for a place to live and work. Everybody loses thatnks to the greed

Dear Amoraah,

I can't help with Barcelona, but if you can wait until you get to Madrid, there is a place called Forocio and it's on 6 Calle Mayor. It is an organization that offers services for international people and Spaniards who want to meet them (no it's not a dating service!). There are often postings of apartments for rent or people looking for roommates. If you don't mind living with 5 or 6 other people and not have a lot of privacy, it could be a good deal. Plus you probably won't be at home a lot anyway!

Forocio's web site is www.forocio.com.

Good luck.

Bunny

I always hear people say that uncontrolled immigration will destroy a country's culture and traditions. What evidence do you have, Cantabene, to say that multiculturalism isn't working well in the USA? The US is a NATION of immigrants! But every group that comes over always wants to keep future groups from doing the same thing, as if they have some exclusive right to live in the USA and no one else does! Nearly all societies today are mixtures -- there are few "pure", unmixed societies, save maybe Iceland.

Some of our best and brightest are immigrants or children of immigrants. And they are totally "American", despite their heritage in another country. If a country, whether it be the USA or Spain, decides to welcome immigrants and integrate them into their society, the immigrants will adopt the traditions of their new country as well as enrich their new country with customs from their old country.

I think the US is a much better country because of the contributions of Europeans, Africans (most of whom were forced immigrants), Asians, Central/South Americans, etc. The Stars and Stripes are American, just as the local pizza joint and Chinese take-out place are American! I don't think you can say the country is in decline because of immigration. We became stronger AFTER the big immigrant waves of the early 1900s!

And what is really "Spanish"? Isn't Spain a mix of Christian, Muslim and some Jewish traditions from the different people who lived in the country for centuries? Maybe if the current Spanish government did more to integrate and welcome immigrants and offer more opportunities for legal immigration, the newcomers would feel that they are a part of Spanish society and enrich Spain with their traditions and culture, while adopting customs that we today consider "Spanish".

I agree with you Nuria that immigration is a world issue and that countries can't take in every person fleeing other countries. And poor countries have a responsibility to improve the lives of their people so they don't feel forced to leave the country.

However, one reason some these countries are in such bad shape is because the richer nations supported dictators in Africa, Asia and Latin America for political gain or stilted these countries' natural growth through colonization. So in a way, it is the responsibility of richer nations to take in some of these people, because they contributed to the situations that made the poor countries such horrible places to be.

By scapegoating immigrants and blaming them for a nation's problems, we all suffer.

Bunny

Bunny,

You are on track on your comments regarding immigration issues in Spain. As my daughter said, Spain is not ready for this sudden influx of immigrants from Ecuador, Africa, Columbia, Cuba and Asians -- Chinese. Remember it took the U.S.A. more than 200 years to deal with immigration and to date, is still dealing with immigration. Also, Spain is now enjoying influx of tourists from Asia. Some of my daughter's Spanish friends are studying tourism and also becoming multi-lingual. They, too realized that Spain is having a tourism boom!

One fact that should be noted is that Spain, along with much of the rest of Europe, is seeing a precipitous drop in birthrates. Without many immigrants in the coming decades, Spain will not be able to function. Not enough people will work to support growing numbers of retirees. Thanks to immigration in the US, this will not be a problem here. And in Spain it is only a "problem" if the racist view is taken that something will be lost in becoming a more multi-cultural nation.

A true judge of a person is how they treat those worse off. And few are worse off than a man, carrying his only clothes, landing on a Spanish beach. Even today, I'm sure the jobs that many of the current immigrants do are jobs that most Spanish people do not want. Frankly, I've been a little shocked at some of the attitudes expressed on this thread.

caminante

While I was in Spain staying at my daughter's landlady, her cleaning lady is from Columbia. I asked her questions through my daugher as my interpreter, what she thinks of Spain. She has lived in Madrid for over 5 years and she hopes her children will get a good education. She cleans the landlady's aparment 3 times and week and feels lucky that she has apartments to clean six days a week. I hope that Spain will one day be like the U.S.A. where the so-called American dream (Spanish Dreaam) could also happen.

The simple truth is that without an immigrant workforce alot would not get done. Spaniards find many of the jobs immigrants do demeaning/beneath them. Its time that the law is changed so that immigrants can enter LEGALLY into Spain and not have to come in like thieves in the night. It is unfair to assume that immigrants are there to take the jobs of the Spanish when as I said earlier, many do not even want those jobs.
My parents were Spanish immigrants to the States. What would have become of them if they had been treated the same way? In order to progress Spain must assimilate the immigrant population. Immigration is a fact of life.

HELLO EVERYONE! Ahhh...the discussion is still going. It makes my heart tingle just thinking about the thread that is forming.

And welcome back MCClarke. It's good to hear that your trip went well. Thank you very much on the update on what being black in Spain was like for your daughter. Your rating system by city was eye-opening. I hope you get to go back soon.

And thanks to everyone who suggested Barcelona. Of course, of course, I will go there as well! But Madrid...there is something pulling me to Madrid.

I am right now planning my trip out with my school for sometime in June or July. I'm very excited and can't wait now that I have been given so much good advice.

Amoraah--It was good to hear from you about your (upcoming?) trip. Please let us all know how it went and what things you did, places you went to while there.

Bunny--such intelligence, I, as everyone must know by now am a bleeding heart radical , so you're preaching to the converted here. Thanks for your comments about immigration.

And I just want everyone to know that if I could immigrate to Spain, I would.

So....did Sheba ever make it to Spain? Sheba, you out there? Anyone know? Maybe she loved it so much she stayed

I see black people in Madrid everyday. I think they are becoming more and more accepted. I work with a group of Black Americans here and have not heard of any problems other than solicitors at their door thinking they are the Maid or hired help, but that also happens to the hispanic(puerto Rican, Mexican and central american) Americans as well. The Spaniards are beginning to understand a bit of "Cultural diversity";.