Your friendly university Spanish professor here. It is vital to teach vosotros. First, it is the second person plural, and to leave it OFF a conjugation is... to leave it off! MUCH harder to learn later in life. I know this from experience: my first year in a SP. speaking country was in Guatemala, where there is vos but no vosostros. When i went to Spain, I was calling everyone Uds., and it took me years to feel comfortable with the vosotros form. I ALWAYS make my students learn it, and tell them, if you go to Spain without it, you won't know how to address two friends at once! you can always un-learn it if you are in Mexico, etc. Correct about the Canary Islands. But Andalucia does use the vosotros, at least in standard usage. Asi que, teneis que aguantar si quereis que MadridMan os suba al rango de iberofilo!

Vosotros is used in the Canary islands as well. It's used mainly on the island of Tenerife but there are also many that use it on Gran Canaria.

Yes, I feel I was gypped(yes, i know this is a derogotory term against the gypsies and that MM likes to put "Americans" in quotes, and all that-why do we have to be so PC!? Anyway, back to the point-) b/c in jr. high and high school and most of college, I was not taught the vosotros and it was not til I went to Sevilla, that I had to learn the vosotros, and fast! Like rgf says, it's more difficult to learn it later. I definately incorporate the vosotros into my teaching.

I am reading some conflicting opinions here: Wendy E writes that the second person plural is not used in Sevilla; but then Jen writes that he/she had to learn it on arriving in Sevilla. I can assure you that it is used in Castilla la Vieja, Aragon, Principality of Asturias and Cantabria and the Comunidad de Madrid (where the Academia del Idioma is domiciled). Just about all Spanish speaking countries are members of that academy and subscribe to its rules concerning Castilian syntax and usage (I write Castilian because there are at least 3-additional officially sanctioned languages that are also Spanish: Catalan, Euskera and Galego).

I certainly didn't expect to open up such a controversy: the second person plural is a part of the language - teaching or learning Castilian without that makes that teaching or learning flawed. This is all a matter of opinion, of course: IMHO a 'Credential' to teach 'Spanish' is incomplete and suspect if it doesn't include the second person plural, and when and how it is employed. You don't have to use it (if, for example, you only go to Mexico) - but you should have to be able to use it if the situation and locale make it appropriate.

[This message has been edited by Eddie (edited 08-28-2000).]

hola, muy buenos dias...

wow did this thread expand or what/??!!

MM, yeah, a "taco" is a swear word, y se aprende los tacos y la jerga durante la juerga. (a party-going saying meaning that one learns the bad words and the slang during the debauchery/party). also, the "tacos" on my futbol boots were loose and breaking off, so i got new pair ( a true story, in 3D.)

i taught spanish in northern arizona at yavapai college (in sedona) and i was alarmed and annoyed that the vosotros form was not even covered in the textbook! i taught it anyway.

whether anyone wants to admit it or not, the vosotros is essential to learn for the truism that MOST of the great spanish literature employs it, not to mention that so does every other LATIN based language, of course, in its own form. so if you learn and understand the vosotros in castellano, you will understand its importance in latin, italian, french, catalan, et cetera... ancient greek even had its own form of 2person plural (and latin borrowed greek's structure and declension model).

it is true those of you who want to fall back on that excuse "but they don't use it in south america or central america so i don't have to learn it" routine are wrong and purposeful in your ignorance. why go out of your way not to learn something that is free and is cool for a misguided feeling of rebeliousness? learn PART over WHOLE? this i do not understand. learn vosotros, it is good for you. (eat your spinach, it is good for you.)

pax.

We have the "Real Academia de la Lengua Española" and they accept the different use of Spanish in Latin America. Anyway, we have to understand that Spanish has many dialects. In spain we usually speak Castellano, but we have Catalan, euskera, Gallego... If they don't use the vosotros in Latin America that's okay. I understand that in USA they teach spanish not Castillian so they follow the rules of the Spanish that they know (mexican, cuban...) but my children will speak Castillian that I think is a more proper Spanish (wich doesn't mean that other spanish is not proper)

Yes, the vosotros is used in Sevilla. Don't deny your students the right to choose for themselves!! Teach the vosotros! If need be, learn it along with them. You'll be glad you did.

Yikes!! This thread is getting too hot! Guess I'll go back to hunting for studs at the hardware store! Vosotros quiere venir?
He, he, he!!!
By the way, I never heard a Spaniard refer to anyone as a taco.

I guess I have a different perpective as an Hispanic American. I know and understand the 'vosotros' form without having learned it in school, just like I know what 'loo' and 'lift' mean without having learned those either. However, just as I would say 'elevator' and 'bathroom', I would still use 'Uds.' I'd feel incredibly pretensious speaking otherwise, nor would the people to whom I was speaking expect otherwise from me. I mean, as soon as I open my mouth, my national origin is immediately revealed.

But I must say I'm dismayed by reading in responses words like 'ignorance' 'purity' and 'proper'. I think Nuria described it best - Castillian is proper for her, whereas it may not be for someone else. Remember, language is evolving and changing everyday, trying to retain its original form is a losing battle - just read about the problems the government of Iceland has with this!

Wendy E,

please do not see my use of the word "ignorance" as an insult. apparrantly you already know how to use vosotros. i am speaking to those that do not and choose not to learn it because of a pride issue.

ignorance is only bad if you seeing it that way. i am ignorant about a lot of things in this world, not scared to admit it. please do not see that i am saying "stupid" instead of "ignorant." i am not.

i do not see the use of vosotros as a losing battle. it has a meaning and it is different than Uds., and that is because i grew up knowing it and have connotations with it. there are (dare i say) millions of people who feel this way about "vosotros."

paz.