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#44964 - 03/10/05 05:50 PM Re: Gallego and Portuguese, the same thing?
Fernando Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 07/05/01
Posts: 1551
Loc: Madrid, Spain
Difficult to say wink

A good percentage of galaecians in the cities speak it normally, but (as far as I know, I'm not an expert) spanish castilian is more used.

Fernando

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#44965 - 03/10/05 07:29 PM Re: Gallego and Portuguese, the same thing?
Murdy Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 11/14/04
Posts: 314
Loc: Madrid
That's right Jabch, "Gallego is good for your health." So is Galician wine and Galician octopus!!

That's an interesting question about Gallego's progress in the past few years. As far as I know, and I'll have to check again with this teacher because he's very much up on the subject, unfortunately Gallego, though still widely spoken, is struggling. It still gets a lot of support from the regional government, and in a lot of intellectual and artistic circles it's fashionable to use it, but the sad truth is that percentage of people who actually speak it as a first tongue seems to be declining. Most Gallegos speak at least some of the language (and for many it's their first language), and though it is not endangered (yet), it isn't enjoying the kind of everyday comeback pro-Gallego speakers had been hoping for. It makes me sad for them, because it really is a beautiful language. There are a lot of factors as to why that is, but I can think of a few:

1) It's too similar to Spanish, making the larger presense of Spanish absorb it. Plus, it wasn't completely standarized until the 1980s.

2) Galicia has never been an enormously wealthy land, and languages sometimes need a strong economic backing to help them survive.

3) Franco's 36 years of Gallego prohibition had an adverse effect.

4) A number of the major cities (like A Coruña) are Castilian dominated.

In any event, I'll check with this cousin-in-law to see what he has to say.

As for your grandfather and speaking Gallego, I agree with Fernando. It's hard to say. Was he from La Coruña the city or from somewhere in the province? That would make a big difference. if it's the latter he probably spoke Gallego, and if it's the former, it would depend.

It's interesting. There is a generation of Gallegos from the Franco period that still turn their noses up at Gallego for being backward. Many of them grew up speaking it but soon rejected it because it was considered to be only for unlearned people. That the case of my father-in-law who's from a small town in Pontevedra. It was the langauge he grew up with, now he rarely speaks it.

They forget that the famous Cantigas by Alfonso X El Sabio were written in Gallego centuries before! There is hardly anything unlearned about that literary masterpiece.
_________________________
www.brianmurdock.net

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#44966 - 03/10/05 09:52 PM Re: Gallego and Portuguese, the same thing?
aidance Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 03/13/01
Posts: 298
Loc: Cardiff by the Sea CA
We have good friends in A Coruña, and they have school age children. In the public schools, part of the day the subjects are taught in Gallego, starting from a very early age. By the time they are in high school, about half the day is conducted in Gallego. The children also study English in school, but mostly reading and writing it. Most of the signs in Galicia are in Gallego, but all of the locals are happy to speak to you in Spanish. There are also numerous publications in Gallego, and some great radio stations. I got the impression that Gallego is very much alive. And much easier to understand than Portugese.

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#44967 - 03/11/05 07:56 AM Re: Gallego and Portuguese, the same thing?
Eddie Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 06/05/00
Posts: 1713
Loc: Phila., PA, USA
jabch quotes (in pertinent part):
Quote:
“Somos uma organização de acção social de base nascida no 1995 como aposta dos grupos de base que existiam na altura, e que como eles procura a naturalização da língua própria da Galiza, conhecida internamente como galego e internacionalmente como portugués .”
I 'picked up' some Portuguese from an English-Portuguese phrasebook and my (wife's) relatives in Pontevedra were delighted that they only had to correct me slightly from spoken Portuguese to Galego. cool

NOTE: The language is Galego although the people are Gallegos, much as in Basque Provinces the language is Euskera; the people are Euskadi. Both, along with Catalan y Castellano are recognized by the Government as Official languages of Spain. Franco tried to stamp out these languages by requiring schools to teach only in Castellano. He actually made it a crime to speak those other languages of Spain in public during his regime as Caudillo. Since his death there has been a resurgence of these other languages.

I believe Galego is still spoken by descendants of the many Galicians who emigrated to Cuba. Fidel Castro himself is descended from a family in a'Corunha. In 1992 we coincided with him on our pilgrimage to Santiago de Compostela. I believe his village is Betanzos.

A little Portuguese will help you understand or speak in Galego. rolleyes

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#44968 - 03/11/05 11:48 AM Re: Gallego and Portuguese, the same thing?
Fernando Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 07/05/01
Posts: 1551
Loc: Madrid, Spain
Hmmm, as a matter of fact, the name of the language depends on the language you are speaking:

English/Spanish/Native language:

catalonian/catalán//catalá
galaecian/gallego/galego
basque/vasco/euskera

Catalonia/Cataluña/Catalunya
Galaecia/Galicia/Galicia
The Basque Country/País Vasco/Euskadi

Fernando

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#44969 - 03/11/05 04:03 PM Re: Gallego and Portuguese, the same thing?
Murdy Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 11/14/04
Posts: 314
Loc: Madrid
We've got a great and interesting thread going on here.

Fernando's right. Euskadi doesn't mean the people from the Basque Country. It's the Basque name for the Basque Country. Interestingly enough, it was completely invented by the Father of Basque nationalism Sabino Arana. He thought of it in the late 19th Century. It's a combo of two words "Euskal" meaning "Euskera (or Basque) speaking" and "di" which means "together".

As for the Gallego. I'm just being lazy and mix them altogether. In Spanish the adjective, person and language are all "gallego". In the native tongue it's "Galego" and as for the English word for it, well Webster accepts "Galician" which is what I've always used. And you're right Eddie, knowing a little Portuguese does help.

Finally, I wanted to modify what I put in the last reply.

You're right aidance, Gallego (Galego, Galician, or what have you), is very much alive and kicking. You find it on signs all over the place, it's accepted everywhere and the language is enjoying a literary boom of the likes it's probably never known in all its history. Great contemporary writers like Manuel Rivas write mainly in Gallego. It is supported by the government, used in all regional government documents and required in school. So, in that sense, it couldn't be doing better. A lot of young people are no longer ashamed to speak it and you can hear it everywhere. All of this is positive and encouraging.

But it's one thing for a langauge to be very visible and another thing for the language in its real and practical use to be equally healthy. That's why I said that Gallego as an "everyday" language appears to be struggling.

As I said, it's still doing well, but what I've been told (and it pains me to hear it) comes from people who are staunch supporters of Gallego (galeguistas) and who would like nothing more than to see Gallego thrive. I once read an interview of one of the most prominent Gallego professors in Spain who predicted that Gallego would disappear in 100 years. And he is pro-gallego! I was shocked.

Let's hope he's wrong. It would be such a shame. I guess we'll have to do our part.

Falemos un pouco de galego de vez en cando para axudar a lingua! I know I do my part! smile

I'll check again with this teacher and see how it's looking nowadays.
_________________________
www.brianmurdock.net

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#44970 - 03/12/05 02:37 AM Re: Gallego and Portuguese, the same thing?
Quintos233 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 332
Loc: Southern California
Some times I question wether Galician,Catalan etc. and other regional langauges don't have very strong link with Spanish because from linquistic point of view they have alot common alot more then French the regions may deny any links to preserve their uniquenes. However I understand that these languages are NOT dialects of Spanish.

Galician is a good language to use for cultural reasons it isn't a very logical language to use as a first one even for the Galicians mainly because most of the peninsula is and should be communicating in castillian with the regional languages taught as an extra cericulum in my opinion.

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#44971 - 03/14/05 12:42 PM Re: Gallego and Portuguese, the same thing?
jabch Offline
Member

Registered: 02/18/05
Posts: 311
Hi All: Thanks for all the replies. I'm glad to see that this subject generated some very interesting comments.

About my grandfather, he was born and grew up in A Coruña. However, his father came from Meira, a little town in Lugo, and his grandfather was from an even smaller town in Galicia, which I don't remember the name at the time. So probably they knew it but stop using it when the family moved to A Coruña.

Actually, my grandfather always called it "La Coruña". It was probably until the late 80's or early 90's that he mentioned that dropping the "L" or saying it in Galaecian was more popular now. He also mentioned that Franco didn't like it and banned speaking Galaecian. Please, I don't want to bring any political debate over this subject, but to know what was the reason for banning the use of Galaecian.

During this period of the history of Spain, were other languages besides Galaecian not allowed? If that is the case, how they did to make those languages come back?

Anyway we should find a way to practice it. But Murdy you sound like an advanced Galaecian student. You will have to be patient with us!

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#44972 - 03/14/05 07:20 PM Re: Gallego and Portuguese, the same thing?
Murdy Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 11/14/04
Posts: 314
Loc: Madrid
Thanks! I wouldn't quite call myself an advanced student, but I do find the subject and the language interesting. I'll have to be brief because it's late:

Franco did indeed ban the other main languages in Spain (Catalan and Basque). I think it was done for a number of reasons. One was to keep tighter control on what was happening in those regions. Security reasons. It was easier if everyone had to speak the same language. This would have been especially true of Basque (Eusquera) which is completely different from the rest. But it also had to do with trying to strengthen Spain's grip on the nationalist movements in those regions. Suppressing the languages was another way of imposing the central government's power over them. Plus, by removing the language you also slowly begin to remove a region of one of its strongest pieces of national identity.
Some proponents of the nationalist movements nowadays use this point in their favor. They'll say, "You see? We don't even speak the same language, how can we be the same country?"

Franco prohibited the languages, but largely on a public and official level. So, even though the languages lost a lot of ground during those years, they managed to survive because they were widely spoken in homes. After all, for many it was their native tongue. In any event, in Galicia at least, Gallego began to appear in public events (including mass) by the 1960s, so the Franco government seemed to grow less concerned towards the end of the regime.

Ironically, Franco in a sense can be "blamed" and "thanked" (depending on who you are) for the massive comeback over the last twenty-five years.
His crackdown eventually set off an opposite reaction where regional languages have been promoted more and more. Though we may have to wait for years before clearly seeing how successful those comebacks are, these days they continue to play protagonist in some of Spain's most heated debates. The most recent being the use (or non-use) of these languages in the National Parliament.
_________________________
www.brianmurdock.net

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#44973 - 03/17/05 11:23 AM Re: Gallego and Portuguese, the same thing?
jabch Offline
Member

Registered: 02/18/05
Posts: 311
Murdy: Thanks for taking the time to answer my question.

Here you have a link to a webpage for Galaecian students.

Aqui tedes unha moi interesante páxina dedica ó ensino e galego:

http://e-galego.cesga.es/inicio.htm

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