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#44407 - 10/23/03 09:08 AM Re: Subjunctivitis
Eddie Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 06/05/00
Posts: 1713
Loc: Phila., PA, USA
I read, write and speak Castellano although it is not my 'mother' tongue: my reply is based on what sounds (or 'flows') best to me.

Which is correct?:

No es que creamos que España [ esté or está ] en las Américas translates to: It's not that we think Spain is in las Americas. I would use sea here rather than esté or esta because it deals with geographic fact (i.e., not a transitory condition). Osea:

No es que creamos que España sea en las Americas

and

Me parece más probable que el español [ haya dicho or dijera or dijo ] "soy español"
How about diria for 'would say,' or hubiera dicho for 'would have said'

Me parece mas probable que el español hubiera dicho "soy español."

If this doesn't sound good to you, so be it! You can read my disclaimer at the top of this post.

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#44408 - 10/23/03 04:11 PM Re: Subjunctivitis
ELECTRACITY Offline
Member

Registered: 06/26/02
Posts: 144
Loc: CANADA
These are all legitimate questions. Students of Spanish have always asked as they advance in their knowledge of Spanish.
In my experience with Spanish and the learning thereof, I have found that the WORST person to ask is a NATIVE Spanish speaker . Of course there are exceptions!! Those that have expressly studied to TEACH Castellano for example. EL Subjuntivo, El Imperfecto del Subjuntivo, El Plusquamperfecto, El Conditional etc are NOT interchangable. Each has a specific meaning based on what the speaker wants to convey and in turn, it occupies a place along the "time line".
Most natives when asked simply reply " oh, it just sounds right". This is NOT the answer and NEVER will be. Each of the above are triggered my certain elements in the sentence (again depending on what the speaker wishes to convey). Here is a (simple) example of the Subjuntivo (Subjuntive).

"Estoy en busca de una casa que tenga un balcon."
The verb tener is in the Subjuntive. WHY? It is NOT beacause it sounds right. It is triggered in this case by the speakers "want or desire". I could go on for a while but I will spare you....
There are great books out on Spanish Grammar. I HIGHLY recommend Schaum's Outline Series entitled (oddly enough) Spanish Grammar. Read this, internalize it and I guarantee YOU will be correcting so-called "Native Speakers".
_________________________
Vamonos pa'Cadiz!

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#44409 - 10/23/03 05:44 PM Re: Subjunctivitis
esperanza Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 01/06/01
Posts: 775
Loc: New York City

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#44410 - 02/26/04 04:00 PM Re: Subjunctivitis
dave99 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/26/04
Posts: 18
Loc: UK
Eddie, I am not a native spanish speaker either, but I thought location (permamnet or temporary) was always described with estar?

Londres esta en el sur del reino unido etc.

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#44411 - 04/02/04 02:37 PM Re: Subjunctivitis
der_geograf Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/23/03
Posts: 29
Loc: Baton Rouge, Louisiana
Hola el viajero,

One of my Spanish teachers in high school taught us a way to remember when to use the subjunctive . . . it's not 100% foolproof, but it may help a bit. (I hope I remember it correctly!)

WEDDING -- W.E.D.D.I.Ng.

Wish Emotion Doubt Denial Imperative NeGation
_________________________
der Geograf (Mike)
Mike\'s GEOWorld

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#44412 - 04/02/04 11:10 PM Re: Subjunctivitis
Sheryl Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/17/04
Posts: 144
Loc: Lowell, Massachusetts
The reason that "estoy en busca de una casa que tenga..." is in the subjunctive is because it is an adjective clause that describes an unknown or vague element.

If whoever is looking for a house that has something and they know exactly what it is, then the response would be: estoy en busca de la casa que tiene.

One noticeable difference between the two examples...the use of the indefinite article in the subjunctive/adjective clause.

Another example: Busco un libro que tenga fotos. Here, all I am asking for is a book, any book, that has photos. On the other hand, if I had said: Busco el libro que tiene fotos...I already know what the book is, although I may not remember the title.

Sheryl

P.S. "No es que creamos" is a subjunctive clause because it is an impersonal expression and creates what is known as a noun clause.

Impersonal expressions (such as es fácil, es difícil, es...; es...) require the subjunctive if the following elements are present: 2 separate subjects separated by "que." This creates the noun clause.

An exception to this impersonal statement would be: es verdad que...; es claro que...; es seguro que... These expressions show no doubt, denial or disbelief.

Sheryl

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#44413 - 04/08/04 09:24 AM Re: Subjunctivitis
omeyas Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/17/02
Posts: 24
Loc: UK
Eddie, I am not a native spanish speaker either, but I thought location (permamnet or temporary) was always described with estar?
Not always!
La reunión es en la sala de conferencias.

Frank

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#44414 - 04/08/04 10:44 AM Re: Subjunctivitis
Sheryl Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/17/04
Posts: 144
Loc: Lowell, Massachusetts
Ser is used to state where something is taking place . For example, la reunión es en la biblioteca.

Sheryl

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#44415 - 04/08/04 05:24 PM Re: Subjunctivitis
Grulla Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/22/04
Posts: 25
Loc: San Francisco area
Hi, Wish I had noticed this section of the board
sooner. I am a male, so should my name on the
message board be "Grulla" or "Grullo" rolleyes .
Thanks, Paul.

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#44416 - 04/08/04 07:43 PM Re: Subjunctivitis
Sheryl Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/17/04
Posts: 144
Loc: Lowell, Massachusetts
That depends...are you a "crane" (grulla) or are you an "old grey mare" (grullo)?

A name doesn't necessarily donate sex...a female may be called María José, having both female and male names.

Sheryl

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