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#44246 - 07/23/03 10:37 AM
Re: spanglish-wot does everyone think about it?
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Member
Registered: 04/08/02
Posts: 181
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Thanks Miguelito!! I didn't know about the Calo dialect. Interesting isn't it.
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#44247 - 07/24/03 02:03 AM
Re: spanglish-wot does everyone think about it?
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Member
Registered: 01/23/01
Posts: 603
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I think there was another interesting dialect called lenguaje de germanías, that was used by the thieves and criminal organizations long time ago, it was like an old slang, that appears in some Cervantes picaresca novels.
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#44248 - 07/31/03 08:31 AM
Re: spanglish-wot does everyone think about it?
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Full Member
Registered: 02/07/02
Posts: 200
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Once again, I don't have a problem with Spanglish. I love the way that languages evolve and that's going to happen when languages come into contact with one another.
La maestra, I am a Spanish instructor also and my students know that they can speak Spanglish at home and in the street, but not in my classroom. I really don't let it upset me.
Those who really want to get to the heart of what Spanglish is should read
The Spanish Language Today Miranda Stewart
Now that we have let our emotions come out, the time has come for some educational reading and a thread free of personal opinions and dislikes. Let's see if we can acomplish this. Shawn
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#44249 - 08/01/03 12:11 PM
Re: spanglish-wot does everyone think about it?
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Member
Registered: 12/21/01
Posts: 87
Loc: N. Redondo Beach, CA
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"a thread free of personal opinions and dislikes"... How boring. (IMO)
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#44251 - 08/02/03 11:43 AM
Re: spanglish-wot does everyone think about it?
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Executive Member
Registered: 08/19/01
Posts: 1664
Loc: U.S.A.
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Hola querido Shawn, A good try for a pedagogical discussion ! I will look at for the Stewart book. I have only read the works of Dr. Stavans. I cited links to his website and articles earlier on this thread. I love being "on the ground floor" pardon my pun, when a language is developing or morphing. We do live in linguistically fascinating times! Besitos, Carmen p.s. a friend sent me this, I just have to share! You Cubans out there will love the way the student has described cuban history Tenía yo un alumno de ascendencia cubana, avispado y notable, que tuvo a bien mandarme un trabajo sobre Cuba escrito por su hermano menor, quien había llegado ya a las tramoyas del high school. Parece ser que el pobre muchacho quería aprender historia cubana, pero entre lo que le enseñaban en el colegio, lo que le contaban sus padres, las enfurecidas aclaraciones de su abuelo --las cuales él apenas entendía porque hablaba más inglés que español-- y lo que tronaba en la radio y la televisión, se le hizo tal confusión en la mente que decidió despejarla poniendo por escrito lo que había aprendido sobre la history de Cuba. He aquí el texto de su paper. Cuba is an island descubierta por Columbus, quien vino con una niña pintada y una santa llamada María. El viaje se lo pagó con algunas jewels la reina de Spain, que era muy católica. En la isla los Spaniards aprendieron a hacer una beer que se llamaba Hatuey, en memory de un indio que prendía hogueras and hated the Spaniards, a pesar de que un good Spanish priest les construyó muchas casas.
For many centurias, los Spaniards ocuparon la isla y la explotaron con tabaco, azúcar y pedacitos de café que llamaban cortaditos. Para que ayudaran a la explotación del sugar, los Spaniards trajeron esclavos africanos, que eran muy musicales e inmediatamente inventaron la rumba, el vudú, y el mambo. Los cubanos no querían a los Spaniards ni a sus explotaciones y comenzaron a planear rebeliones. Los cubanos en esa época se llamaban mambises because they had invented el mambo, y eran muy marcianos because seguían las ideas de José Marcí, un great leader who wrote poems for children. En esa época the Cubans comenzaron por quemar un town llamado Bayamo y, por razones que no logré averiguar, esta vez los Spaniards no pudieron apagar el fuego.
Después de muchas luchas y campiñas, los Americans decidieron intervenir y mandaron a La Habana un warship que se llamaba Maine. Los Spaniards, que eran muy explotadores, explotaron al Maine y los Americans les declararon la guerra.
The Spaniards ganaron rápidamente una guerra que llamaron una`splendid little war', ocuparon the island y obligaron a los mambises,for misterious reasons, a comer un plato sureño que se llamaba la ensalada Platt, la cual provocó many protestas y discusiones...
The first President of the Republic llegó al poder por una estrada y se encaramó en una palma. Era an honest man, pero no muy tough, y cuando hubo otra rebelión se bajó de la palma y llamó a los Americans.
After todas esas luchas Cuba se hizo free y comenzó a progresar. En 1934, los Americans y los Cubans se pusieron de acuerdo para abolir la ensalada Platt y dejar que cada cual comiera lo que quisiera. Los cubanos enseguida inventaron el chicharrón y el sandwich y se sintieron muy happy.
Pero había muchos political problems, sobre todo with a tough president, manchado por la dictadura, y un sergeant llamado Batista, que quería ser general, y a quien un presidente casi santo, de apellido Martín, and another llamado Prío, and a very popular líder llamado Eddy, quien amaba las chivas because they were symbols de honestidad, no querían dejar que el sargento fuera general. En 1952 Batista le dio un golpe al estado y Fidel Castro atacó a un tipo que se llamaba Moncada. Luego Fidel se fue a México and, according to my grandfather, se unió a un atorrante argentino, se armó con una sierra y se fue con una maestra a hacer guerrilla warfare. Muchos cubanos, y algunos mambises que todavía quedaban, helped him en la lucha, but many others, incluyendo a mi abuelo, no se dejaron engañar by the barbudo and from the very beginning supieron que Fidel era un Commie.
Entonces Batista escaped to Spain, and Castro llegó al poder y dijo que era verdad que él era comunista, le quitó todo a todo el mundo, trajo Soviet missiles, e impuso en Cuba un real dictatorship. Many Cubans se escaparon para el norte y fundaron la Florida y Miami. Otros se fueron a Puerto Rico y España. But many tuvieron que quedarse en la isla y los castigaron por quedarse. Hoy en día los cubanos están muy poor y quieren que Castro se vaya, pero el barbudo ha dicho que no deal y que se queda. Todo esto ocurrió hace muchos años pero, como dice mi abuelo, el que no aprende lo que pasó before no puede saber lo que está pasando now.
_________________________
The world is a book, and those who do not travel read only a page. --St. Augustine (354-430)
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#44253 - 08/02/03 07:30 PM
Re: spanglish-wot does everyone think about it?
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Member
Registered: 02/18/02
Posts: 317
Loc: ny,ny
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_________________________
fmiketheman
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#44254 - 08/02/03 08:39 PM
Re: spanglish-wot does everyone think about it?
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Executive Member
Registered: 08/19/01
Posts: 1664
Loc: U.S.A.
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Oso, This was mailed to me by my cousin who is a teacher in Miami. I suspect that it may be true, and not a "teacher legend." But, I cannot verify this. I say this because I teach Western Humanities to college freshmen and sophmores, and it is not uncommon to find this type of missinformation about historical facts. I cannot share them on this venue for ethical reasons. Have you ever listened in to Jay Leno's Jaywalking? Examine, however, Oso, the way the youngster switches language. Our Cuban Spanglish! If you read the story literally... absolutely nothing that the poor boy wrote about Cuban history, or history in general, was accurate. As the teacher said: The boy wanted to learn Cuban history. He, in his confusion and ignorance, however, drafted his history based on faulty paradigms. 1. He gathered information from the new revisionist history of the Spanish Conquest of the Americas,that was taught to him at school. Which as we discussed in another thread perpetuates the Leyenda Negra. 2. The faulty anecdotal memory of his parents, which may be seen as oral history, if it is substantiated by others. The parents were probably not historians or specialist in Cuban history, they may have learned cuban history in their childhood, and passed on to the child as fact, information that was not quite clear, he made his own 21st conclusions. 3. The histrionic ravings of his grandfather, who probably spoke only Spanish, which the boy could barely understand because his knowledge of English was greater than Spanish. 4. Plus the missinformation he gathered from the Miami news media, which I can verify is great! Ergo, the confusion in the boy's mind was so great that he was totally lost to the accuracy of historical fact as stressed in the official cannon of history. But the reason I shared this story was not due to the youngster's lack of historical training and perspective, but the way he wrote his report! He was code-switching from English to Spanish and vice versa! This according to Dr. Stavans, is the beginning of the forming of a new language! So, for the purpose of this thread, the way he wrote the paper, and not its content is what I wanted to share. BTW Oso, what is the term you used: rflamo?
_________________________
The world is a book, and those who do not travel read only a page. --St. Augustine (354-430)
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#44255 - 08/02/03 09:12 PM
Re: spanglish-wot does everyone think about it?
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Executive Member
Registered: 04/06/03
Posts: 330
Loc: Garden Grove, California
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Oh Booklady, don't get me wrong, I understood the point of the post. It's sad but at the same time it's ironically humerous. Funny to read it, but sad that someone actually wrote it for a school report. It's so typical of young American teens today, knowing hardly anything about world history and geography. Hell, some don't even know where Canada and Mexico are located!
_________________________
Verbum sapiente sat est!--¡Una palabra al sabio es suficiente!
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