Anyone know the languistic history behind the differences between Spain and most all other Spanish speaking cultures???

As a Californian I hear the Mexican dialect often. They, like most all Americans (as in the continent), pronouce "c" like an Engligh language "s." Also, the origins of the Argentine "ll," as spoken with a strong "chhhh" ??? Is this all just a process of the language migrating, or are there more interesting reasons?

I'm curious if there is a social or historic reason. It can't just be that it's a lazy interpretaion of "pure" Spanish. Did Americans loose some of the etiquette in the empire building - or has there been an effort to speak differently???

All very interesting to me because in some ways Mexican Spanish, for instance, can be "older," or more traditional, than what is used in Spain. Any comments on this? For example, Americans tend to stay in the "formal" more often, and many of the words still in use are considered archaic by España standards.

An interesting contrast!

Here are my early observations in Valladolid- They take great pride here in their Castellano, and it seems to be well respected by most Spaniards.

"ll" seems to have sound that is somewhat closer to a l-y sound. Although, with a more opened mouth than we (English speakers) would say it, so it is slightly raspy sounding.

"g" Also seems to differ from Madrid as well, more of an "h" sound.

Following the arab invasion of Spain there was a Reconquista (reconquer of the Península).

At that time there were 5 major languages in the peninsula: galaic-portuguese, astur-leonese, castilian, navarro-aragonese and catalonian (of course with wide varieties and with the basque remaining in the basque counties of the castilian county).

As the Reconquista progressed, those languages were extended southward, but one of them was more powerful (perhaps economicly or politically) than the other four: the castilian. Therefore, the castilian occupied the influence zones of the navarro-aragonese and the astur-leonese languages. With the time, it also became one of the languages of the rest of the Peninsula (except Portugal that became independent in the early stages of the Reconquista).

Therefore, today we have castilian spoken in almost all Spain, influenced by those ancient languages in every region (bable is a dialect of the astur-leonese language, there are dialects from the castilian very influenced by the navarro-aragonese, the ancient catalonian, and the galaic-portuguese). The galego and the portuguese directly descend from the galaic-portuguese (thus the name), and the modern catalonian, the valencian and the mallorquín are all dialaects (and languages) from the ancient catalonian.

In the south the influence is from the ancient arab. In the north there are some celtic and french influences. Since we were invaded by the visigoths, there are words that come from their language, etc...

To understand why in South and Central America they speak as they speak you have to understand several things. First is that the most of the ancient spaniards who went there came from the Castilian Kingdom or the castilian part of the Spanish Kingdom (the Aragonese Kigndom navigated through the Mediterranean Sea, they had their influence zones separated). Also that all the ships that went to America parted from Seville (where they use the "s" as a "c") and made a stop in Canarias. Therefore americans have that peculiarity (and others).

When the independence of the spanish colony came, there were only 100.000 spanish-speaking citizens in all America (yes! that few!). But these citizens were the most powerful and rich ones, so the rest of the natives quickly learnt spanish to reach higher in the society. The spanish extended to almost all the population, gaining big influence from the native languages in the process.

Then, in the last centuries, other europeans went to the spanish-speaking countries (for example english and italians to Argentina, therefore the musicality of their spanish, or people from the Netherlands to Colombia and Venezuela).

Why the spanish from Mexico is both arcaic in some ways but also more influenced by english?

There is a simple explanation called the "onion theory" (for its layers). The "center" or core of the language is, and was, Spain, and the rim or the external layers are the american spanish-speaking countries. When a change is made in the core, the external layers are the last which receive and adopt it, the reverse situation, when a new term is adopted in the external layers (the english of the USA being the most powerful influence for this countries) the core is the last layer to adopt it. Thus, you may find the most arcaic terms and both the newest ones in the spanish of Mexico and other countries.

Fernando

Now THAT was a post! This is one of many reasons why I'm addicted to this site. Fernando - thanks for the info on the contrast between "pure" Spanish and the differences found in the Americas.

Jason

I agree with JJP! Fernando, NOW that I know you personally after meeting at the "MadridMan Party: Ver.4." I'm even MORE impressed with your postings! They're SO insightful, SO well-structured, SO clear and full of facts, so detailed and mature. And all this from a young, early 20-something! My god! You really are incredible.

Someone make this man the president of their multi-national corporation or Human Rights Organisation FAST!! Thanks for your (and EVERYONE'S!) input! I've learned so much about the language I love to study and understand.

Fernando, you're amazing!!

Tara

Ups! I don't know what to say

Thanks, but it is unmerished You just pulled one of my flaw points: history of the spanish languages

Fernando

Wow, this is certainly an interesting topic. I saw a show on a tribe in New Guniea and they said that there are over 700 languages between 100,000 people. This fact makes me realize that if no language were dominant in Spain that it would be pretty messy. Truely, I'm sure that is the way it was in most European countries, although I don't know for sure. All of these former Latin speakers languages became localized and they evolved into different languages and dialects. At some point I think it is beneficial to have one language. Although in catalonia their language is part of their heritage and culture, I think it is great they still speak castillian. I guess the way everyone learned Castillian because it was the most dominant at the time is somewhat similar to the way people all learn english because it is the most dominant.

Well, great post Fernando,

PS, I will be going to Vallencia pretty soon here on the 16th, but I will be going to NYC to stay with a friend on the 10th, so I am getting packed up now. It ain't easy packing for 8 months, but I am resolved to keep it lean and mean. The last time the airline put a tag on my bag that said "get help to lift"