Hi All

This may be a totally stupid question, but I'm sure it's not the first . As you may or may not know I will be travelling to Spain for the first time with my sister in May. We fly in to Barcelona, out of Madrid and are going the northerly route because I REALLY want to see the Guggenheim. So, I'm wondering how different Spanish is from Basque, Galician and Catalan. I am a firm believer in knowing the language before you go, but SHEESH!! I assume speaking in Spanish to a Basque will be more "acceptable" than English, but will people be laughing at me and pointing. Not that I mind that...

Thanks
Kimberley

Galician and Catalan are different languages, but belong to the same family as Spanish, you will understand something if you read these languages knowing Spanish. Basque is an entirely different language without connection to the Romance languages.
In any case, basically all people are bilingual and will understand and appreciate if you speak Spanish. You might hear Catalan etc. on the street, but there is no need to learn all the languages at the same time...Even in Barcelona where people from other parts of Spain say that they made bad experiences of people refusing to speak Spanish with them, I just made very positive experiences of people appreciating it a lot that I spoke Spanish as a foreigner.

hi there kimberley:
excellent questions you pose. i often hear many people wondering the same. as connie said, there's no need to learn all the languages. (which would be near impossible) the vast majority of the people are bilingual. it is more common in cataluna's countryside to hear catalan exclusively. however, in my experience all were wonderfully helpful in light of the fact i don't speak catalan. from what i understand, gallego and basque are generally confined to the countryside when it comes to day-to-day use.(calibasco ought to be able to elaborate on this) you will see both languages on street signs. from reading the words, you're spanish will be of use when encountering catalan and gallego. there are written similarities despite the difference in the spoken language. mind you, none of this will be of help with basque.(euskera)

as for spoken relationships, they are all VERY different. both gallego and catalan are romance languages like spanish. meaning they derived from the vulgar latin spoken in the former roman provinces. gallego is considered by most liguists to be a dialect of portuguese. if you have a look at it and its pronunciation you'll see the similarities. if you've ever heard portuguese spoken, you know how different it sounds from spanish. catalan is derived from and very similar to provencal french. unlike spanish, spelling tends to be rather different as does pronunciation. from what i could hear (i'm certainly not a linguistics expert) catalan has a somewhat gutteral french sound. as for basque(euskera), it is a language all its own. up until a couple of years ago it was believed to have no relation to any existing language. as of my last readings, some linguists now believe basque to have very distant ties to chechen. the language itself was never romanized, thus retaining its original indo-european form.

i do hope that all of this helps. take care and do have a wonderful time. i know i'm not the only one who's green with envy. =)

[This message has been edited by nicholeye (edited 12-05-2000).]

[This message has been edited by nicholeye (edited 12-05-2000).]

[This message has been edited by nicholeye (edited 12-05-2000).]

I had the same worry when I went to Bilbao in April: I asked a cab driver on the way from the airport to my hotel and he assured me that Castellano was fine. I found this to be true all over. In Barcelona we spoke castellano and people asked if we were from Madrid. In Vigo (Pontevedra), we asked for directions to La Pedra marketplace, and the people we asked thought we were from Barcelona.
The 'Art of the Motorcycle' exhibit drew me to the Guggenheim. I am not into modern art. But Frank Gehry's Titanium 'wrapper' is quite impressive.
In Bilbao, take the Bus Vision tour (it ends at the Guggenheim). Visit Casco Viejo and especially the 3-story market on the river.
Don't confine your 'northern Spain' trip to Bilbao. Continue west to Cantabria and the 'Picos de Europa,' to the Principality of Asturias and on to Galicia (Santiago de Compostela). Do the 'Pilgrimage' thing!
Galego is closer to the Portuguese than Castellano. Learn a few words in Portuguese (Obrigada is good (for 'thank you')). They will appreciate that.

[This message has been edited by Eddie (edited 12-06-2000).]

Hey, thanks for the suggestions. We are planning on exploring around the north (and actually are in Bilbao for just a couple of days).

Doesn't sound like the language stuff will be too bad. I already know some Portugese (although it is mostly limited to saying "I only know a little Portugese) and I have a pretty good hold on the romance languages. The rest will be...a challenge.

Thanks a bunch
Kimberley

My friends' experiences in Barcelona are horrible. They (madrileños) went to Barcelona to participate in a Karate competition. Nobody spoke Castillian even when my friends didn't know catalan. Their car got scratched for having a Madrid license plate and they refuse to let them in the discos. But they are not the same with foreigners, they only act like that with people from Spain that are not catalanes. Of course not all of them are like that but if you have a bad luck day your trip to Barcelona might be a nightmare.

'Eu no falo galego' is also a good phrase to remember. But in the larger cities (Vigo & Santiago)you shouldn't have any trouble with the language. Gallegos are generally very hospitable.
I don't know what your mode of transport will be but Alsa ( http://www.Alsa.es ) has pretty good bus service across the north coast (Irun-Gijon). There are also local bus companies (La Palomera, for example that will take you from Santander to Potes).

Somebody knows me all too well...I had to add my opinion on this thread...

The only place in the Basque country that I had trouble knowing only Spanish (and only a few phrases in Basque) was in Azpeitia, which is in the "sticks". In Bilbao, you will have no trouble speaking Spanish only. Be aware that the place signs are bilingual, not simply over-informative. San Sebastian (if you're traveling east) is Donostia, and Vitoria (heading south) is Gasteiz. Many of the other places are similar. Like Eddie, I went to "El Guggen" for the building. It is definitely a work of art unto itself. About ten years ago, I would have said Bilbao is nice, but not worth the trip. Now, I say it's a can't miss. The entire city is beautiful now, and the river is getting cleaned up (the Nervión, which runs right by the museum). DO visit the casco viejo. The basilica of Begoña is a good stop, too. If you want a nice view of the city from up top, there's a funicular at Artxanda. Just ask how to get to the "parque de atracciones", and you'll find it. If you venture out of Bilbao, and can swing the transportation, I recommend Gernika (Guernica) as an interesting history sidelight.

You might try these two phrases to "endear" yourself to the Basques (remember that legend has it that Basque is so hard to learn that even the devil hasn't learned it yet!): Egun on (pronounced more like egg-oon-ohn) for good morning and "agur" (a-GOOR) meaning "good-bye". The castellano is all you'll need though. Of all the peoples in Spain, I've found the Basques to be the most accomodating, right on par with the Andaluces.

In Galicia, you will be able to understand without a hitch, especially since you have experience with Portugese. "Non falo galego" or "non falo mais que castelao" help, but really shouldn't be necessary. Both in the rural areas and the urban centers of Coruña and Santiago, etc. you'll be fine. The gallegos might look harsh, but they open their hearts to you very easily.

I envy you, and we all want to hear all about your trip upon your return!!!

Hey thanks so much for the info. Unfortunately, I am now sitting in my office practicing Basque and my coworkers are probably getting suspicious that I'm not attending to...work...

Thanks again!!
Kimberley

hi there kimberley,
thought i would add to the helpful little phrases that have been posted. this is all i remember of catalan.
sisplau: thank you
adeu: goodbye
pot parla castella sisplau? could you please speak castellano?
no el parlo catala: i don't speak catala
no entenc: i don't understand

as for gallego...
muito obrigado: thank you
bom dia: good day
non falo galego

[This message has been edited by nicholeye (edited 12-08-2000).]

Kimberley,

Here's a link...there's some additional words for your "at-work lessons": http://simr02.si.ehu.es/docs/book.SS-G/v2/Euskara.html

I've also found good information at www.bilbao.net

[This message has been edited by MadridMan (edited 12-08-2000).]

Actually, in Galicia all you have to say is "gracin~as" and you will endear yourself! In Galicia, only in very rural areas do they speak ONLY gallego. Everyone in or around cities speaks both. And if someone speaks to you in gallego you can usually understand, and they understand you back when you speak castellano. If you ask directions you will hear "dereito" and that is "derecho". Praia is playa. You can learn the differences quite easily. H= F (hablo = falo).

Thanks for the editing help, MM...

hi all,

i would like to add too that knowing just spanish is going to be fine anywhere in spain. the discrimination stories you might hear are almost always about catalans or basques discriminating against spanish speakers only. you, as a foreigner, are fine and they will NOT expect you to know any local language or dialect.

which is all the more reason to know just a couple of words as it will really surprise and sometimes thrill them! especially if you come from far away like north america.

i'm an ardent basque-o-phile and i have a reasonable written level in the language. though i KNOW none of you are interested in basque much, i would help with anything i could if you should ever want to know something.

you will find even basque has tons of spanish words, mostly because basque had huge holes in its vocabularly until the romans came, because they had little technology or even written language.

here are a few things:

egun on- (as someone has already said) good day.
zer moduz? - (formal) How are you?
eskerrik asko- thank you (a good one to know)
agur- goodbye (very common)
gero arte- see you later (less formal)
mesedez- please

Z is never pronounced like /th/ in basque.

brian

I am curious as to whether or not ther is a noticeable pronunciation difference between Spanish and French basque (I am a real nerd for the music of language, the sounds). Anyone know? I remember tuning in to a basque radio station in San Sebastian/ Donostia and just listened to the language for about half an our. It was BEAUTIFUL.

On the subject of the people from the north east of Spain i.e. Catalans. I don't like to class every body in the same mould but for what it's worth here are a couple of my experiences. Staying in a resort hotel in Tosa de Mar we found all the hotel staff waiters etc had been replaced with people from Granada (nice people) because the Catalans were incapable of being civil with the customers. This was after repeated warnings and a desire to employ local people.
Another example of the 'war' between the Spanish and Catalans was given to me by a girlfriend from Barcelona. She told me about a typical family situation where the father speaks only Spanish and the brother hates the Spanish and would only talk Catalan.

[This message has been edited by steveaqui (edited 12-18-2000).]

Nicole-
Just like any other language, euskera has regional differences. My mother speaks the euskera of Navarra (as she's from the border town of Valcarlos [Luzaide]), and actually has commented to me on the few phrases that I know. Sometimes she's mentioned "that's not how you say it," to which I reply, "that's not how YOU say it..." Guipuzocoanos are somewhat different than vizcaínos, etc., but like Spanish around the world "se entiende".

I'm surprised this question didn't come up at dinner. I could've answered it then and you could've seen by my expression that this is one of those "real answers" not a phony one! Remember, I've sworn that any apocryphal answer will be disclosed within 48 hours...I guess you'll need to check back...

Yeah, I think I was too busy stuffing my face with sauerkraut and wienershnitzel

But anyway, this isn't www.deutchcuisine.com .... hee hee

[This message has been edited by Nicole (edited 12-18-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Nicole (edited 12-18-2000).]

I remember the '92 Olympics when I was living in Talavera de la Reina (Madrid province). As we watched the Olympics on tv they did the announcing in the 'standard' languages; English, Spanish, German, etc.....and you guessed it: Catalán (well, it was in Barcelona!).

Funny thing was...the Spaniards we were watching it with were furious that the Olympics were catering to the Catalanes! It was so interesting to just see the anger surface when it was something that had never even come up during previous conversation.

Leche

[This message has been edited by Leche (edited 12-18-2000).]

Everyone unerstands Spanish, and speakes it. If you are a tourist, MOST people will go out of their way to help you. In the big stores and tourist places, someone will be able to communicate with you in English if your Spanish is shaky. The regional languages are sometimes used to "show off". Until about twenty years ago, Galician was a peasant language, spoken only in the rural areas, although most in Galicia could understand it. After Franco, regional languages became all the rage. Galician was almost a lost language. If there isn't a Galician equivalent to a Spanish word, they'll take it from Portuguese, which in itself is a "dialect" of Galician.
But once again, EVERYBODY speaks and understands Spanish. You shouldn't have a problem.

a little while back someone asked about the varieties of basque on the spanish and french sides of the border.

like Calibasco said, it has different varieties, some say around 7, but as you can guess, others in small rural areas might say that they have their own that isn't listed.

some on the french side have the french sounds like nasalization and that 'eu' sound.

i love basque, but i was surprised that it was called "beautiful"!. i guess i like it for different reasons.
i actually consider it to be pretty rough. i like that.
and i actually (dont crucify me) consider spanish to be an 'less-than-pretty' language.
i'm in love with spain, this is the only reason i study the language.

incidentally i dont consider any variety of english to be that pretty either.

brian

Maybe it was softer way the radio announcers pronounced the words.

I know what you mean about spanish. Although, there are so many different accents - some of them are really lovely, like Uruguayan spanish and parts of central America, with the blending of the soft indigenous sounds to the accent. I also think the accent from Central Spain can be very pretty, depending on who is speaking. When I first arrived there though, I was totally unable to respond when a Spaniard asked me a question -the flat intonation and rapid speed felt like they were aiming a gun at me and firing through their mouth. I also thought the whole "theta" thing sounded so Affected. Now I love it!

The thing is, when you learn a language, you gain the ability to understand/communicate and that is amazing. Unfortunately, at least for me, it loses a little of its magic. You can't cut off understanding the words, and it gets in the way of hearing the music and the sounds...

Anyone ever take HS Spanish in the US? I remember learning "SAS" or Standard American Spanish (!). It was only when I arrived in Galicia for the first time that I realized that the regional dialectical sounds were so different (obviously Galego is considered a language...). I feel that the Castellano puro de Valladolid, etc. is beatiful; I also agree with Nicole that other dialectic variations of Spanish have their charm (most notably for me the Buenos Aires area of Argentina). I can't stand the whiny nasal Spanish of Northern Mexico, but as I got further down into Mexico (Guanajuato, Irapuato, D.F.), the Spanish spoken there became more enjoyable for my ears.

I always have felt a little cheated that the Spanish I was "forced" to learn was a homogenized version of all of them (except, of course, the mother tongue: castellano). It seemed like the best of Spanish except for castellano (zeta, vosotros, etc.). I even had a professor in college tell me that if I was to have any hope of being a success in teaching Spanish, that I should drop the castellano "zeta". And like a true Spaniard I told him "a la porra" and continue to speak as I have since setting foot in Spain 12 years ago.

FYI: In areas where Euskera (Basque) is taught scholastically, they are learning what is referred to as "batua" which is the "unified dialect". "Bat" in Basque is "one". Do you think the ingleses would let us try that with English? How 'bout the Kiwis?