CaliBasco-what a great idea! I hope you don't mind if I snag that one and put it to use! Thanks-
Jen

LOOKING TO SHARE EXPERIENCES ABOUT TRAVEL TO
SPAIN WITH A SCHOOL GROUP.

TAKEN FROM TOPIC "TEEN CLUBS".

I am looking for a teen club in Madrid. We will be a group of 39 going to Madrid in 2002. Last time I took the kids to the Joy Disco . It was not a good environment in that it was a very adult / heavy drinking
atmosphere. Does a teenage (16 - 18 years) club exist that does not have alcohol?

We are also going to Valladolid and Santiago de Compostela. Any teen club information would be GREATLY appreciated!

These kids want action and dance music!
http://www.geocities.com/srasofia/fiesta.html

Still looking for teen club info for Spain...

Have you taken your students to a Justo Lamas concert? I recommend it! We learned lots of songs before attending ("siempre por siempre", "Magdalena", "Cielito Lindo", "Estremecete", "No hay camino sin salida", "La Bamba" and more.) He is a pop singer from Argentina. He has a U.S. tour schedule. He also performs at Foreign Language Teacher Conferences. He is wonderful!!!

Here are two photos from our concert day: http://www.geocities.com/srasofia/justo.html

Sofia,
I take students to Spain every June. We have taken our students (mostly 17 -18 yrs) to Kapital on Calle Atocha. They have special hours (on weekends) for 'yogurines' from 9-12 (or maybe its 8-11...I can't remember). At 12 (or 11) the joint is cleared out and they then have their adult hours that go till 4 y pico..... They check ids at the door for birthdates and the kids have a blast. I have never gone into the club but I do know it has many levels and different style/type of music is played on each. I always bring my students to the door and meet them when they leave....I would be interested in hearing about Joy Esclava in that this year that was a place I was thinking of going 'for a change'. Do you know if they have 'special hours' for jovenes?

I travel with ISE out of Eden Prairie MN this June will be my 8th trip with students.

I am currently a 7/8th grade Spanish teacher in Tucson. I started teaching Spanish to this age group when I returned from my studies in Spain back in 1968 and have taught continuously since then. I did about 15 years as an ESL/bilingual teacher sandwiched in there between the Spanish.

As for vosotros...I teach on the border where no one uses it. It is not used all over the Spanish speaking world, and if you are living in an area that does not revere the Spaniards (think conquest), it is not too popular. Similarly, the rest of the Spanish speaking world does not use the castillian zeta. I try to teach my students to go with the flow. I explain what vosotros is, we practice with it every now and then, but I don't do much because 1)the text..read the giver of all knowledge...does not test it nor expect competence with it until high school, 2)most of my students will be going to Mexico, not Spain, to practice Spanish, and 3)the majority of Hispanic students and parents I deal with bristle at the mere mention of Spain. Remember that the wonderful culture we love was imposed on people against their will and wonderful native cultures were destroyed in the process. I love Spain and consider it my second home, but I also have to look at the total picture!

As for Justo Lamas....yes, I think his music is wonderful, but I can't ask my students to pop for the $10 or more needed to attend his concerts. When I asked why he needed so much money (we have to provide the hall and the sound equipment...as I understand it, all you get is Justo) I was told that things are expensive in Argentina. I'm sorry to hear that, but I don't think my students are obligated to help him "make it" as an artist. Arizona is at the bottom of the heap in terms of student spending, teacher salaries, and salaries as a whole. If students can't afford to pay $10+, and many can't, I would have to cover their costs because state law says I can't take students to an educational activity that would exclude some because of financial difficulty. I'm sorry, but this Justo thing irks me! I'm sure I have now offended many and will quietly slink off my soap box

Dear Perfecta and Maestra,

I thank you for your comments - GRACIAS!

Perfecta, when I took the kids to the Joy Disco on Calle Arenal, it was not during a special youth hour. I didn't know of the concept of the youth hour. I will definately look for youth dance hours next time! And I will try Kapital.

Maestra, yes the Justo concert was $10. We were invited by the school who hosted him. Their school district had the kids pay $5 a head. I think that their district or their fan club might have paid half the ticket price for each student attending. All other schools paid $10 per student.

Also, they did not host the concert at the school but rather rented an Opera House. I do not know the financial details, but I am so sorry to hear that your kids missed the show because they did not have the money.

For my students, it is a rare opportunity to see a Spanish language performer. We are up north near the canadian border. I've been teaching for 18 years and this was the first opportunity I've seen to expose the kids to a real entertainer (one who really did stir their interest in Spanish).

I teach at a private / Catholic school. The kids can afford the ticket, but we do not have busing to take them on field trips. Luckily, the concert was two blocks away. My
kids have the cash, but almost never have the opportunity to leave the building. As teachers our circumstances do vary!

My son has been programming web page work for me all day. Here are 16 photos of a recent trip to Sevilla, Spain.
http://www.geocities.com/srasofia/fiestafotos.html

Thank you again for taking the time to fill me in on so much.

Kathleen (alias Sofia)

I teach in North Dakota and no one can beat us (?!) when it comes to low teacher salaries; we are always 49th or 50th and last year rumor was that we came in at 51st with Puerto Rico beating us! We are also very isolated and have very little diversity. A teacher from my town worked very hard to get a Justo Lamas concert arranged and he will be here on April 20. The cost to each student was $7.00. We have had great response with some students coming over 100 miles for this opportunity. I presented it to my students as a class activity and said if anyone could not afford it to see me. Not one student could not pay for his/her ticket. To cover my bases I checked with my principal about the best way to 'take care of' any needy student's ticket and he assured my that he could find the money for any student that could not afford to go. Maybe in Arizona and other places where hispanic culture is part of everyday life this type of activity has diminished priority but here in the frozen northland I had students (and a principal) eager to pay for this experience. I'll let you know after the 20th how it went.

Hola Perfecta!

I took two pictures on the day of the Justo Lamas concert and have put them on the net:
http://www.geocities.com/srasofia/justo.html

Are you singing with the kids in preparation for the show? They do go nuts when Justo sings a song that they know. One of my boys
went up on stage and sang "Siempre por siempre" with Justo. I took a video camara and have it all beautifully recorded. The teacher who hosted the concert gave me a few songs (the music and the lyrics) to sing with the kids in preparation for the show.

Yes, here in the land of snow, the tundra, we don't hear much Spanish on the streets. The thought did pass through my mind that in Arizona the Maestra's students are exposed to a lot more Spanish than what our northern border kids hear. So, for us the Justo concert means much more.

Maestra also gave the best explanation of vosotros that I have ever heard, and why it might not be emphasized in a classroom.

I taught Spanish in SoCal for five years, four of which were spent teaching "Español para hispanohablantes"...those who already "speak" Spanish. Through a wide variety of texts we worked with the kids to help them be able to read and write a language which they "thought they knew".

When I see what is happening in Arizona (and seemingly most other classrooms) as described by maestra, I'm disappointed. I suppose that the same educational system which advocates "creative spelling" in the elementary classrooms of the nation wouldn't think of "imposing" the "actual grammar" and "entire conjugation" on those poor students who have elected to take Spanish. In my opinion, if you're teaching an elective, you're blessed with a little more flexibility. Nevertheless, regardless of how many atrocities were perpetrated on the peoples of Mesoamerica, Spanish language is what it is, and in order to appreciate it to its FULLEST, the student of Spanish should immerse him or herself in it fully. This includes the "vos" in Argentina/Uruguay, etc...and the vosotros in Spain.

I think when one is dealing with young adolescents who need their two years of high school Spanish for college and that's it, you have to think about practical applications, too. Yes, back in "19diggity diggity" we taught all the conjugations and the students were expected to know vosotros. The parents of my students will tell me that they learned a lot of grammar but still can't speak Spanish, so studying grammar without having daily practice simply won't get the job done. I teach only level 1 and as I stated earlier, the text does not test vosotros in any way, though it appears in the text as part of the entire conjugation and some future members of the MMBB experiment with it . Most of the kids only want to know what they will be tested on OR what they see a practical application for. I can teach all kinds of vocabulary that has nothing to do with the text if they see a use for it, but spending time on vosotros at this point in their Spanish "career" does not seem worthwhile...sorry CaliBasco! I have to pick my battles carefully, and this is one I just don't worry enough about to engage in. In second year the text starts integrating vosotros into some exercises so by 3rd year kids are able to handle Spanish literature. By that time, only the serious students (as in, really want to taste, smell, feel, hear, etc. the language in all its glory) are in the class. Those who only needed their two years may have had more time to practice Vds. ...which will offend no one if used when vosotros would do, though the opposite is not necessarily true. I teach about 140 students this year and I think all but about 10 of them have spent or spend time in Mexico (particulary the beaches at Puerto Peñasco). They want to be able to function in Mexican society and need practice with the Vd/Vds forms lots more than they need vosotros! If they are able to function in the language (listening, speaking, reading and writing), I'm happy. That will be more than was accomplished back when I went to high school.

I work with native Spanish speakers who still will not use the tú form with me because they were taught the tú form belongs in the home. Even more extreme are the households that require children use usted with their parents! I was shocked when a young Basque student used the tú form with our professor! Not one of the Mexican students in the class (and we were from 18-60!) would have dared do that!

With the growing Hispanic population and their new found voice, I think what I am seeing is going to be the norm and not the strange Southwestern exception. From my perspective, I do more to help my somewhat hostile students deal with Spain and its culture by letting them come to it slowly at their own pace than by trying to force something like vosotros on them...and I really do mean force! The students who are "heritage learners" have enough trouble accepting the fact that agarrar is not the only verb one can use to say "get" or that "ermano" is incorrect spelling...especially when this is coming from a gringa!

When I taught English, I didn't teach British spellings of words or give all the vocabulary differences that exist among the English speakers of the world. When something unusual came up, I explained the difference and/or usage and we went on with the lesson. I can't teach everything! I understand that those of us who read and respond to this board love Spain and everything about it with a passion that baffles most people, but when I look at a map of the world and see how proportionately small Spain is relative to the rest of the Spanish speaking world, I have to do some soul searching and try to find a balance that meets my students' needs the best. My own son was my student for two years (with little or no vosotros) and yet learned it easily in high school because he knew how to use all the rest of the conjugations well. And while I knew and used vosotros all the time in Spain, I have to look over the verbs every time I go back because lack of use makes my conjugating a bit rusty . If I ever dared to use the vosotros form with the parents of my students, I hate to think what the reaction would be!! Qué atrevida!

My first year of teaching my very wise assistant principal told me my goal should be to have 25 years of experience teaching, not one year 25 times. I've gone a bit beyond that now, but the philosophy stays true! I adapt to meet the needs of my population and to lead them towards higher educational goals, and that's the best I can do!