Anybody know WHY? Spanish teachers are told to not teach vosotros? Even the text books, which show vosotros, cover the vosotros verb conjugation with dark gray. They show that vosotros exists, but it is not part of the curriculum. Why?

I never learned vosotros. I can write it, because there is time to think before writing. It is very difficult for me to speak using vosotros. I usually have to say to my Spanish friends, "Lo siento, pero necesito decir "ustedes" porque no se bien la forma "vosotros"."

What's up with that? From the postings, I think the whole country is the same in the USA schools. I had thought that it was NYS regents that eliminated the vosotros.

Many students have a tough time with tu and usted. They understand that both exist, but they can't handle that both have a different verb form. In recent essay work, so many kids (level II and III) wrote "Tu es mi amigo" or "Tu es muy bonito." Throw usted into the package and they don't know which verb to write next to that subject pronoun! After the recent Valentine's day essay, we started singing "eres tu" a song from 1974. La recuerdas? An argentinian singer, Justo Lamas, is doing a remake of the song in concert, and we are going to the concert on March 15. The song couldn't have arrived on my desk at a more appropriate time.

Those of you who are teaching the students vosotros are doing the serious language student a great service.



[This message has been edited by Sofia (edited 02-10-2001).]

Here's a link to Spanish words with an Arabic origin:
http://www.verdeislam.com/vi_03/VI_307.htm#A

I wish they had taught it to me incollege, but only because I did my study abroad in Spain, and it was really difficult in the beginning to pick up a new tense.

I understand why it freqently isn't taught. It is the only Spanish speaking country in the world that uses it, and it isn't in our hemisphere, unlike all the others (except the west african country, whose name I can't remember).

Europeans are not taught American English in school; they learn British English -makes sense in a lot of ways.

Come to think of it, I don't remember meeting any one else that was taught the "vos" form used in Argentina. If you want to be really inclusive, that should be included in the programs.

I taught Spanish for a short time in grad school. Most Spanish books in America have this fiction when they present vosotros:
"Vosotros is used in some parts of Spain" Which parts of Spain do not use vosotros? Have you heard ustedes in non-formal settings? None that I am aware of. This misinformation diminishes a tense that should be taught.

Not sure, but I believe that in Latin America use of the 2nd person plural is not really widespread, whereas in Spain it is. Well, with young people not really but if I talk to someone on the street I don't know I use it. Perhaps that is why it is not taught in the States where the Spanish tends to be South American dialects.

This is exactly the same in French and Catalan, the plural tense is a polite form of address.

Someone from Costarica told me vos or vosotros was commonly used in conversation, although I don't know which. Are there any Costaricenses out there can tell me which?

It's vos, an informal pronoun akin to TU. It is used in parts of Central American, in Argentina... The conjugation (and not TENSE, ya'll! sorry to be pedantic) would go like this: vos te sentAs aqui (vs. tu te sientas aqui). Escribime una carta (vs. escribeme una carta). Vos is singular. In countries with VOS, there is no VOSOTROS! So, you say, vos venis, y Uds. vienen tambien. Lesson over.

Hola, todos!
I am a Spanish teacher from the other side of the United States....in the REAL, very rural western Washington At the end of March, I am taking a few of my students to Spain, hoping to broaden their horizons. (This is a do-it-yourself tour, a headache at times, but fun)
About VOSOTROS... I have strong feelings about this one. Why teach it? Because it is used by millions of Spanish speakers in various parts of the world. Because it will be heard in important films from Spain and Argentina. Because it is used if one reads La Santa Biblia in Spanish. Because it will be expected knowledge in university placement tests....Because it doesn't hurt to try another mindset - it's mental expansion! (my students have a hard time understanding why there should be formal and informal forms sometimes) I tell them that someday they may leave Podunk and find that there are other ways to do things.
And I think it's time I got off the soapbox!
Saludos, y hasta luego!
Liatris

I'll second (or third, or whatever) the "wish I had learned it before going to Spain" refrain! Once I had more than one Spanish friend (which didn't take long in gregarious Spain!), I heard it all the time and had to constantly search my memory for meanings. I never was comfortable using it, and found myself doing silly things like asking one person from the group, "what do you (singular) think they want to do?" I liked how it felt to be on the receiving end of the "vosotros" form, too--like I was part of a close group of pals!

So I vote for vosotros to be highlighted in yellow, not muted in gray!

Tara

To add a few comments to an already great discussion: (by the way, I notice that we all seem to be in agreement over the utility of teaching vosotros...I think that's a first on this board!!!)

I may have mentioned this elsewhere, but my resolve to teach the castellano puro was fostered by a well-intentioned, yet severely misguided university professor who advised me in my fourth year of studies to "drop the castellano 'zeta' accent, and go for a more 'universal' sound". Granted, I had taken Spanish is JHS and HS, but when I first went to Spain and lived for two years, THAT is where I learned to SPEAK the language. I was a product of the old grammar-translation method, where the ability to write was emphasized over the oral-language capability. I'm glad that's changed...anyway...my "accent" was cultivated in situ, in Spain. To me, this man's suggestion was akin to me telling my cousins in Texas to "lose the drawl, y'all".

As far as vosotros goes, we were told that it was a personal decision, but that it 'wasn't common practice' to teach it. I'm proud to report I taught it, my students learned it, and I got a colleague who had been teaching for over 25 years to 'rediscover' it.

As a sidenote, it isn't that much harder to "learn one more conjugation". It's actually easier. I used to use the verb 'hablar' and the tune of the Mexican hat dance to teach the forms in the present. See the following, and even though the accentuation is a bit off, they learn the endings, which is the point:

ha-blo ha-blas ha-bla, hab-lamos hab-láis hab-lan; ha-blo ha-blas ha-bla, ha-blamos ha-bláis ha-blan. (repeat it...think of the tune to the song, and the kids do it...I had seniors coming up to me four years later after taking Spanish 1 as freshmen: "Oye, profe: HA-BLO HA-BLAS HA-BLA....they loved it!) Without the vosotros, the song doens't work, and you'd have to find some other CHEESY way to teach them the forms!!!