Hello,

This is my first post to this forum although I have been reading it for weeks. I would like the state that, after reviewing many forums, I selected this because Madrid Man’s description of his efforts to move to Spain are very similar to our journey in the sense of the dedication and effort expended and that this forum is very active and members respond to questions with so much thought and care.

My partner and I are in our early 40s and we have always planned on moving from the US to another country to retire. We have traveled extensively for many years and now have come to the point where we feel we should not wait until retirement to make our dreams come true.

Of course we soon learned that you just can not move to another country and start working and with the formation of the EU and then immigration problems, many EU countries have passed laws which seem to highly favor EU citizens over non-EU citizens concerning residency and work, which is understandable.

After looking at several countries including The Netherlands, Greece, Germany, France & Spain, were are trying to match country residency and work laws with our capabilities and desires. One area that we are looking at is our gay partnership of 14 years and I have to say that many of the countries we are looking at offer far more privileges and rights than the US, except perhaps Greece. Spain’s law allowing same-sex marriage certainly is interesting and I wonder if we would be allowed to participate at some point after living and working there?

Spain has many different types of residency and work permits compared to other the other countries mentioned above. We hired a law firm in Madrid to look into our situation and give us a report about which residency and work permits to pursue. We should have that report soon.

My partner has a Bachelor of Science in Education (English). He taught school briefly and has been a professional trainer at a large newspaper in Texas for 17 years. He is interested in the TEFL program where you come to Madrid for four weeks of school, get a TEFL certificate and find work teaching English in schools, to adults and private lessons. I have a Bachelor and Master degrees along with several different work “lives” in concert production, health care, mental health care and then working for a large newspaper as a sales manager. I have been recently contracted to help a real estate company revamp their website although I have no technical education in this area. I may be interested in teaching English also but I could also maintain my website work for the real estate company being self-employed in Spain.

We have both taken two Spanish language courses and have traveled extensively in Mexico and Costa Rica but never Spain. We speak and read Spanish a little past a beginner level. We plan to also enroll in Spanish courses upon arrival and will complete courses here before we leave. We have two cats that are our children and would have to go everywhere we went.

Thank you for tolerating this long post but I felt the more info everyone had, the better the response to my questions:

1. After looking at numerous TEFL schools, we are considering the Canterbury TEFL School located at Calle Augusto Figueroa near the Banco de Espana. This appears to be in the gay-friendly Cheuca district. Has anyone heard about this school?
2. We need an apartment or house in Madrid near or within commute to the TEFL school, AC & heating, one bedroom, one bathroom, safe area, allows two cats. I don’t know if I am on the wrong websites but the apartments I have seen are double my current house payment in the US. Any ideas on apartments in this area around 750 Euro per month or ideas on a commute from an area outside of town that is more reasonable?
3. It appears that many Americans have given up on the legal work permit and are working under the table. Does this mean they just got some type of residence permit and not a work permit or did they not get a residence or work permit? I would like to be legal so that we don’t have any worries.
4. Finally, does anyone see anything in our plan that is missing? Anything else important to consider?

Thank you so much for reading this very long post. I have never posted in anything like this in a forum before so I hope I posted this in the correct place and have not broken any rules.

Sincerely,
Gary & Keith

great effort and move; congratulations in doing it.just want it to come in saying that.

the school do not know
apartments better to look into spanish media like suvivienda.es
ilegal are many but never recommended;its a personal choice. most work as independant and do not show as employed;other do websites;or work from internet;other get helps from those already there as secretaries and such. better come legal.
missing? have you live long term in Spain before? visiting and living are two whole diff things.
hope you get your dreams done.

Gary and Keith,

As a gay man who has lived in Madrid for 4 years and 4 months, I can tell you exactly what you can expect, but bear in mind too that these are my experiences.

QUESTION 1

As far as Canterbury School and their TEFL program is concerned, they are just like anyone else. There's nothing special about them because the content of what is taught in TEFL programs is homogeneous. Many school try and say that their TEFL program is better, but in reality, it's the price that makes programs different.

I never did a TEFL course because I have 13 years of administrative, teaching and tutoring experience in foreign language education. So, I decided to save my money and just hit the pavement. Granted, I started teaching in Spain in 2003, when many academies were still lax about not having a work visa. Many require it now, but you still can find some that allow you to work under the table. I did it for 3 years and 4 months and never had any problems at all, but I DO NOT ADVISE ANYONE TO DO WHAT I DO. It's a personal choice.

QUESTION 2

Good luck in the apartment search and finding something at that price. This is not to say that it won't happen, but with prices for apartments going up and landlords getting greedy, it can be a task. First of all, what are you looking for in a neighborhood? That can help us to help you much better.

You also have to realize that where you live is also essential to where you will end up teaching. I know that you don't know this right now. Let me give you an example. I lived in Gregorio Marañón and had all of my classes up north. This made it very easy for me to go by lines 1 or 10 to get to Cuzco, Valdeacederas, Plaza de Castilla and Montecarmelo. This is also a decisive factor tothink about. You have very few English classes being taught in the South of Madrid. it's a fact.

QUESTION 3

Many Americans in Madrid have nothing when it comes to legal papers. Just a passport. There are those lucky few who have either married a Spaniard, gotten transferred to Spain or have lucked up with a Spanish company that has sponsored them.

QUESTION 4

I can't really answer this question.

If you want to pick my brain more, you can email me st s_redwood@hotmail.com and we can talk even more. Please put in the subject line SPAIN MOVE, so that if it goes to junk mail folder, I'll know it you all.

Have a great day and good luck with the move.

Shawn

Hey Pactzin,

You said you have traveled extensively, so I am assuming you've already visited Spain. And while it's totally "a pasada"....I wouldn't come here w/o a visa...either a student or work permit visa.

I worked under the table for a couple months in Barcelona, teaching English to rich kids. It was great, but only because I knew I wasn't staying there longterm. I think I was getting paid like 10 Euros/hour...which was just what I needed for my wine tab. And no you just can't get your residency..unless you marry someone and that takes a real while...something like a 1 and a half.

Like most people, I still haven't forgotten Barcelona. Just can't, but I know I can't go there w/o any kind of security. Luckily I have a contact who is processsing my petition for my work visa. I consider myself pretty darn lucky...cause you will need it and most companies won't look at you if you expect them to sponsor you. Also, consider that if you do end up in a situation where you can get your permit, note that you have to come back to the US and stay for a month until your nearest spanish consulate processes your request. I'm doing all of that from the US then I'm back to spain with visa in hand. It takes a while but it's better safe than living on a string.

Perhaps you should aim at going for just your TEFL with a student visa. I have two friends who have double mastered just to stay in Barcelona!

I hope I've shed some light. You have some very good questions. Maybe MM can offer a few words of wisdom.

In any case Go for it and good luck!

Thanks to everyone who responded privately or via the forum. I made a note of the new things to consider and will come back with more questions. I'll respond in the manner each of you requested.

One item sticking out is that neither me nor my partner has really been to Spain. I have been to Gijon in 1988 to set up a world tour for a major artist when I worked in the concert production business, but I remember very little about it. It may be possible to arrange a week-long trip to Spain in the next few weeks to get a feel for the country but I do not think it is that important.

Our primary dream is to settle in an EU country in which we feel minimally safe; find work to pay our bills plus a little more so that we can spend all of our other time traveling all over Europe and the World. I think another thing that pulled me to Madrid was a sentence on the TEFL school webite that says, "you will not find corporate America". After 20 years of being a corporate junkies, the types of low stress jobs we are looking for will give us time to do what really matters to us.

I will respond soon to your questions.

Gary & Keith

Just a quick note to say I know Canterbury very well . It's on the edges of the gay area which is nice for guys like us , butI agree with Shawn's comments . Don't believe the hype ! Their website is very good but paints a very positive picture of what is , in essence , a very ordinary organisation . I worked for Canterbury and can tell you that they do offer you as much work as you want ... that's true .... But language academies here in Madrid are crying out for teachers ! Also the pay at Canterbury is the lowest i've heard in Madrid . I've been here in Madrid for over a year now ( I'm English ) and have loved every minute of it . it's a great city , and the gay nightlife is cool . It's a VERY gay city at night .
About the work permit/visa thing . mmmmm I know many Americans who have stayed on way past their visa deadlines , and I'm told by American friends working here that nobody cares ... Even immigration at the airport . But bear in mind that European countries have a habit of tightening immigration / visa rules at the last moment . Good luck you guys , and maybe i'll meet you in Chueca one day . steve_robinson1966@msn.com .

Hey another thing . I worked as a trader in a bank for 20 years ... And i came here to escape corporate London . You can do it . But please bear in mind that working as a teacher here can be very stressful . With Canterbury you are required to teach in offices and private homes which means that you're running round all over the city . In summer , when it's 100 degrees farenheight here , that makes for a very unpleasant day ... Believe me , I know ! Steve

Hi Gary and Keith,
I just noticed your post today. I don't know if I can offer any advice different from what has been said already. I have done the teaching English thing for almost 6 years. And it can be stressful as steve said, and physically draining. The key is block hours rather than one hour in one place, travel to the next for another one hour class, etc.
Anyway, I think Madrid is a really great place to live, I think you'll like it. And being "illegal" is not that bad really, although can be frusterating.
Ps. another website to check is www.idealista.com for apartments. But for 750 its hard to get a nice 1 bedroom in the center..Probably more like 800 or 900. Good luck, see you in Madrid!