this really helps out Nativo
thanks for the info: its always good to know for me at least:

regarding the cost of living, the biggest issue in Madrid is the cost of housing! I've been looking and its hard to find anything under a 1000 a month for a 2 bedroom apartment.

In doing my research I found that soft costs (heat hydro phone etc) are quite reasonable about half of Germany, transportation (metro etc) is dirt cheap. I haven't found out about things like insurance but I would expect they'd be cheaper as well.

Food is about the same.

I saw a thread on another board regarding the cost of living they quoted 15.000 euros a year outside of housing. That means with 12.000 a year rent you'd need in the hand 27.000 a year which means you'd need 2 incomes to live on.

here something for the discussion in general :of course, I do my own study anything and everything from gas to insurance to food to tv satellite subscriptions::::found out I am doing better in Europe than US.
Madrid is cheaper than many German cities see below.

2005
Rank City
1 Tokyo, Japan
2 Osaka, Japan
3 London, United Kingdom
4 Moscow, Russia
5 Seoul, South Korea
6 Geneva, Switzerland
7 Zurich, Switzerland
8 Copenhagen, Denmark
9 Hong Kong, Hong Kong
10 Oslo, Norway
11 Milan, Italy
12 Paris, France
13 New York City, United States
13 Dublin, Ireland
15 St. Petersburg, Russia
16 Vienna, Austria
17 Rome, Italy
18 Stockholm, Sweden
19 Beijing, China
20 Sydney, Australia
20 Helsinki, Finland
22 Douala, Cameroon
22 Istanbul, Turkey
24 Amsterdam, Netherlands
24 Budapest, Hungary
26 Abidjan, Côte d'Ivoire
27 Warsaw, Poland
28 Prague, Czech Republic
29 Taipei, Taiwan
30 Shanghai, China
31 Bratislava, Slovak Republic
32 Düsseldorf, Germany
33 Luxembourg, Luxembourg
34 Singapore, Singapore
34 Frankfurt, Germany
36 Dakar, Senegal
37 Munich, Germany
38 Berlin, Germany
39 Tel Aviv, Israel
40 Glasgow, United Kingdom
41 Athens, Greece
41 Brussels, Belgium
43 Barcelona, Spain
44 Los Angeles, United States
45 White Plains, United States
46 Madrid, Spain
47 Birmingham, United Kingdom
48 Zagreb, Croatia
49 Hamburg, Germany
50 Hanoi, Vietnam
50 San Francisco, United States
52 Chicago, United States
52 Beirut, Lebanon
54 Riga, Latvia
54 Kiev, Ukraine
56 Ho Chi Minh, Vietnam
57 Miami, United States
58 Algiers, Algeria
59 Casablanca, Morocco
60 Tallin, Estoni

Let's try to keep on the topic of "Taxes net vs gross", please. Thanks!

Saludos, MadridMan

excellent site for cost of living in the world!!!!

http://www.muskadia.com/pays_par_pays/cout_de_la_vie.asp

to me it all goes down to what i take home and how it cost locally versus where i am going. its all relevant info.

Nevado: Great idea, and thanks for the offer. I have been watching the net for Real Estate prices, and even for "fixers" they are more than I care to spend.

Yep, everbody has a plan to beat Ceaser out of his due. Governments bring this sort of thing on themselves, I just returned from two weeks in Ohio and Indiana. The prices of real estate were cheap compared to Arizona and certainly Spain. But, there was the taxman standing around with his hand out everytime you turned around. Here in the USA it would be to easy for the taxman to catch a "black money" deal like is being described in this thread.

The next question comes up, how does that seller think that he can walk away from a contract because the buyer refuses to be part of a tax fraud? That seems to be a case that any lawyer would love to gets his hands on. I cannot speak for Spanish contract law, but I know that under American contract law, the seller has sold a house wheather he likes the tax consequences or not. It seems to me that the buyer would be under no obligation to be part of a criminal act, and a judge in a court of law would tell the seller that in no uncertain terms.

DD- good point on the legality of it all but I think you posted in the wrong place...

Have you paid a deposit or signed anything? I Spain, if the seller opts out of a signed deal (or a pre-contract) they have to pay the potential buyer a sum of money.

DD, you're not alone in thinking things in the Midwest are not what they seem...property taxes are outrageous. Here in Europe I spend less on property taxes a year than for renting my parking space!

So how does the real estate tax is assessed in Spain? I think in some countries, like the U.S. or Mexico they do not care (for real estate tax purposes) how much you paid for the property. Actually, the contract may say you paid 1 dollar / peso, but the assessor’s office will make you pay property taxes based on the value they consider appropriate for your property. If you don't like it you have to fight it. Is not the same way in Spain?

As to Personal Income Tax I found this website with helpful information: http://www.strongabogados.com/taxes.php

It is exactly the way the 7% tax (impuesto sobre transmisiones patrimoniales) works in Spain. This tax has to be paid to the regional government (comunidad autonoma) and they have tables with the standard values of the properties depending on its size and age, and the street, the city, even the story it is located.

The issue is that, with real estate market prices rising 12-15% per year since about 1998, those tables are a little out of date. That is why a small cheat (10-15%) can be done more or less safely.