I am in what seems like an impossible situation, where the person I want to live with is in Madrid and I am in Washington, DC. From all the research I've done, finding a job in Madrid is almost impossible. It is pretty frustrating. So, we've started brainstomring ideas of creating our own company. Anyone ever done this or known anyone who has done it? And if I may ask, if there are Americans on this site who are in Madrid, what do you do for work? Thanks.

llewilli, welcome to our ALL SPAIN Message Board!

You wrote: Be sure to read the previous exhausting and frustrating threads, " Starting a Business in Spain? " and (again) " Starting a business in Spain ". We here played with idea but it blew out the window as an impossibility, requiring visas, licenses, permissions, money, you name it - not to say that anyone (including me) actually made any calls or sent any letters to find out, though.

Sounds like you've read MANY of the previous threads on this topic. Good. But it's not just Madrid which holds "the Impossible Dream" - it's throughout Spain. The barriers are high and the economics are more than challenging. You'll find few (if any) 100% USA nationals living/working in Spain - none on this message board that I'm aware of, at least none of our active members.

We had one, MADABOUTMADRID, who married a Spanish woman but I know his employment in Spain has been WAY BELOW what we'd consider "stable employment". He went from one company to another with large gaps of time between each one. He's no longer active on our message board what with the new baby and professional challenges.

THAT seems to be best way to LEGALLY live and work (or try to find work) in Spain is to MARRY a Spaniard. But there are lots of challenges in marrying a foreign national too, it's takes time, some money, patience, and then you have the right to live/work in Spain but.... you'll likely make MUCH less money than in the USA and so that brings about its own streses and anxieties in daily life.

Some of our message board members, some past and present, have been fortunate enough to have dual USA/European Union citizenship and THIS has allowed them to legally live/work in Spain. But then, once again, finding meaninful employment which will support them is another matter. I'm sure many of us here know many Spaniards who are in their 30s and still living at home with family because 1) they can't find a job, 2) they can't find a job which will allow them to support themselves, or 3) they can't possibly afford to buy a place of their own for the current inflated real estate prices. These 3 reasons are, in part, why the birth rate in Spain is the lowest in Europe because BOTH partners MUST work and/or they can't afford to have/raise a child on their salaries.

I've done quite a bit of research on this "Impossible Dream" since I first seriously considered "the move" about 6 years ago. You/We search and search and search the internet for the recipe, the check-list on how to make this happen and there just isn't one. It's so darn frustrating that it's THIS difficult - and now made even MORE difficult with countries tightening their proverbial belts when it comes to immigration restrictions. The easiest way (which is BY NO MEANS EASY) is to get married. Or better yet, MARRY SOMEONE RICH. (isn't that a terrible thing to consider??)

I too would welcome any and ALL input on this topic but I'm afraid there won't be much - IF ANY - from United Statesens living and working in Spain LEGALLY. Chica is probably our only semi-active member who married a Spaniard and now lives/works in Madrid.

Good luck. You'll need it. Ugh.

Saludos, MadridMan

Thanks for the long response. Yeah, the horizon is bleak. But then again, I know of an American couple that started a cafe/bookstore in Madrid and it has done well and of another American couple that own a chiringuito (sp?) on the beach in Mojacar and have done well. Granted both businesses got up and running a while back, but people have done it. I did find the string on starting a business in Spain and that was helpful. I just ordered several books on the topic as well. I may read myself to death and find no answer. Our other alternative is for him to come here but I don't think it's much easier for him to find a job in the States. Ugh, stupid stupid countries. Anyway, I continue in my quest to overcome this problem and enlist anyone else who'd like to join me. Thanks again!

I'm sure if you have enough capital anyone can start a business in Spain.

Please do keep us posted with your findings. Thanks and good luck!

Saludos, MadridMan

LEWILLI, yes please keep us posted because if you succeed that means there's hope for us yet!

I think the best way is either to be tranferred by an american company that has offices in spain or even better to start your own business.Two people from my study abroad program started their business in madrid a few years ago.

Matador - was that a teaser or what

Tell us more! What type of business did they start? How did they get enough capital to start? How long have they been in business?

Thanks!

Hi Everyone...

This is my first forum post, although I've been reading all of the topics for a while now and they've been both interesting and useful.

You can add me to the (short) list of Americans now living and working in Spain. I met my wife in California, but about two years ago we decided to move to Barcelona. She's half-Canadian and half-Spanish, and has had Spanish citizenship since she was young. We just got married here in Spain a few months ago, so now I'm "mostly legal"...I'm just waiting for all the appropriate paperwork to crawl its way through the Spanish bureaucracy. (picture molasses in winter and you kind of get the idea.)

As for work: I'm a software developer, and I've been able to find work here and there in the meantime, mostly as a U.S.-based contractor. But most companies won't consider you unless you have an NIE and NIF (the Spanish foreigner ID and fiscal ID numbers). Also, as others have already said on another thread, the salaries in Spain are MUCH lower than what you might expect in the States, and while the cost of living is lower in some respects, that definitely doesn't apply to renting or buying an apartment.

So, my advice? If marrying a Spaniard is an option for you, I highly recommend it. If not, it's a much longer and more difficult process, but it can be done. In fact, as I write this, the laws are changing to allow anyone with a six-month employment contract to apply for residency. So if you can manage to get a job offer (or have the financial means and tolerance for paperwork to start your own company) you can become legal that way. Whichever route you choose, though, be prepared for a lengthy process. "Las cosas del palacio van despacio."

Anyway, hope this helps...thanks for all of the interesting posts, and hope to see you all around!

-greg

I'm also an American married to a Spaniard living in Spain, and the only Americans I know who are legally working here either have dual nationality (from an EU country) or are married to Spaniards.

As others have pointed out, there are many challenges to working in Spain even if you can work legally. There are many Spaniards who are unemployed or are working with a "contrato basura" and getting paid next to nothing. I'm currently teaching English which I enjoy (I was going to be a Spanish professor in the US), but I'm also looking into other types of jobs.

One word of caution about the changing laws that Greg mentioned

This is only applies to people who are already in Spain and who have been living here for at least 6 months, so unfortunately it wouldn't help llewili much.

Meg writes:
Yep, you're right, Meg...it's more of an "amnesty" route, so for most people not already in the country without papers, it's not much of an option.

Okay so let's say you are legal. Then how difficult is it to find a job? I am a lawyer, which is pretty much a waste in the Spanish job market unless I switch from litigation to corporate. And, how important is fluency? Should one dedicate all one's time to learning the language to the point of near fluency before even applying? And finally, does anyone know of a website where American companies in Spain list job openings? We're solving this problem and all going to Spain!

Regarding the idea of getting work with United Statesen's companies in Spain because you're a United Statesen, I believe, is a fallacy. I believe this is a common misconception. Those United Statesen's companies have almost no United Statesens on the payroll - they're all Spanish! I too used to think I could get a job at, say, FORD MOTORS, and go into the work everyday, entering a kind of USA Microcosm where everyone's from all over the USA, everyone speaking English, etcetera. But nothing could be further than the truth. You walk into Ford offices and everyone's speaking Spanish because they're all Spaniards!!

ggladman, this is a question I was going to ask you via email but will do it here for everyone's benefit: You say your wife is half-Spanish. When you two applied to marry IN Spain, did SHE do so as a Spaniard or as a United Statesen? If as a Spaniard, I'd/We'd be very very interested to read/find/know of a step-by-step recipe for a United Statesen marrying a Spaniard IN Spain. I've searched everywhere and none exist.

As for llewilli, your having experience as an attorney in the USA COULD help you. BUT in order to practice in Spain, yes, you'll have to be fluent in Spanish. And to get a professional job in Spain you'll have to be near-fluent as well. I'm sure there are a couple obscure exceptions to this but I can't imagine what they could be which weren't quickly identified and filled immediately.

It's a common problem. You can't get a professional (or almost any) job in Spain without speaking Spanish. And you (almost) can't learn Spanish unless you're in Spain learning it. And you can't stay in Spain unless you're there (and willing to) spending a year+ to learn Spanish well enough to be able to get through a job interview.

Good discussion. Saludos, MadridMan

Fluency is essencial. Most people in Spain learn some english, but this average knowledge, richer in grammar, reading and maybe writing, and poorer in speaking and listening fades and dissapears along our lives because of lack of use.

Even executives rarely can mantain a conversation in english unless in a work that implies it's frequent use, much less debate subtle law matters. Unless your work is mostly linked to international affairs and your contacts be fluent in english for the same reason, you'd have to learn at least average spanish ASAP or use a translator.

English is always a good asset, but spanish in imprescindible. Although I believe you could have a decent level of spanish in, say, a year, in the USA if you tried real hard (it would usually take more years).

Yes, a lawyer's title would be of almost no use, sorry. Unless you look for some other possibilities, like an agency (for contracts, creation of mercantile societys, management of condos, ...).

The reason why your title wouldn't work you know it, I believe, but anyway, you'd need to validate it, which involves lots of bureaucracy and somentimes is impossible if your University or degree is not listed or any other problem, also laws are specific of each country or supranational institution (EU), so you'd have to start almost by the beginning. And the spanish law is mostly latin style instead of germanic/anglosaxon consuetudinary regulations.

MadridMan asks

I did this recently, so I can explain the process (at least for a civil wedding, a church wedding may be different).

Step 1: Go to the Civil Registry in the town where the Spaniard is a resident ("empadronado") and pick up the application form/information sheet.

Step 2: Gather the documents you need. For a US citizen you need you birth certificate with an Apostille seal on it, an official Spanish translation of the birth certificate, a statement saying that you are single and free to marry (this can be obtained in the US embassy), a document that states your place of residence in the US (also from the embassy), a letter about the Posting of the Banns (again from the embassy), your passport and a photocopy. The Spaniard needs his/her birth certificate, a document about his/her place of residence ("certificado de empadronamiento"), and his/her D.N.I. (identity card) plus a photocopy.

Step 3: When you have all of the documents and have filled out the application form you need to go back to the Civil Registry to turn them in. They make you sign a bunch of papers there, and you also need to go with 2 friends or relatives so that they can sign a paper saying that they know you and know of no reason why you shouldn't be allowed to get married. When this is done the Civil Registry will give you an appointment to come back in about 6 weeks (at least it was 6 weeks in my case--in Madrid)

Step 4: Go back to the Civil Registry the day of your appointment, and they will tell you that your papers are in order and you can get married. You sign the papers, and they tell you to come back in 2 weeks to pick up the marriage license.

Step 5: Pick up the license and choose a wedding date. In my case we did the paper work in Madrid but had the wedding in Burgos, so we had to take the papers to the town hall in Burgos. There we filled out another form and they let us choose a date the same day that we dropped off the paper.

Step 6: Get married--don't forget to bring your passport to the ceremony because they need to check it.

Basically that's it--of course than the real fun begins when you have to apply for residency here after the wedding, but I guess that's another post.

I feel compelled to write in response to some of the comments made here and in other places on the board over the years. Yes, it is extraordinarily difficult for an American – or a United Statesen, as MM puts it (love that term!) to get a legal job in Spain without marrying a Spaniard or having dual nationality. But it is NOT impossible, and I say so because I am living proof. I went to Spain knowing about 100 words of Spanish, and because I was 1) amazingly lucky, 2) in the right place at the right moment, and 3) I had the right background and specialized training, I was hired legally in Spain. Of the three reasons, being in the right place at the right moment was the most important, and of course that’s almost impossible to plan or predict. (My official profession is elementary school teacher, and the American School had a sudden opening. Spanish teachers do not have the US training necessary to teach subjects there other than Spanish. A word of warning to teachers thinking this may happen to them – don’t count on it. These types of openings rarely happen. It’s hard to get a job there, and you’re better off going to a job fair.)

llewilli, I think Ignacio is right regarding your profession. May I suggest that you consider finding a niche that may work for you and make it happen? Your background is in US law, and we know that there are many, many Americans living in Spain. Surely some of them have need for American legal advice concerning property and situations they are involved in in the US. If you were to partner with a Spanish lawyer, the two of you could give an excellent service that could cover all the legal aspects an American in Spain would need access to, both in Spain and the US. There may even be a need for legal advice for Spaniards with connections in the US.

I do believe there are legal offices in Madrid that offer these types of services already, and I don’t know if the field is already saturated or not. I also do not know how you could become legal, but as I understand it, if you have a specialty that is needed for a job, and a Spaniard does not have it, you can work legally. It seems to me that you have a specialty. If you think this idea is worth pursuing, I’d suggest contacting the US Embassy in Madrid to ask them for information about legal services for Americans in Spain.

Good luck!

Thanks Diana, I think those are great ideas and I'll look into them further.