Get off your high horse, Monito. Illegal immigration is going to happen, regardless of whether you want it to or not, regardless of whether it should happen.

I for one, shall be there illegally next year! Perhaps I'll serve you a drink or sell you a flower. Either way, there's nothing you can do to stop it.

Maybe you can help him with math?

My view is that the government is way out of line in the obstacles it puts up for people who want to reside legally, work and pay taxes and give much back to Spain. I hired a lawyer to get my residency permit, she said I more than met ALL the requirements, but was refused. Later I learned that my lawyer had neglected to have me get my documents translated, a very basic thing, and not my fault. I am on the point of starting a business which will employ several people, pay taxes, Securidad Social, etc., but cannot due to archaic laws and an obnoxious system. My wife has both residency and work permits. I will have to wait for several years until she gets her citizenship before I can get my residency, and that means many periods of separation. Is that fair? I am an expatirot (spelling?), and one of the main reasons I live here is to protest the horrible things happening in the US, and things being done by the US to citizens of other countries.

The many Ecadorians here (my wife is one of them) are, by and large, a hardworking, honest and beautiful people who have had their country totally ruined by the World Bank and the CIA, along with the Columbian drug cartels and corrupt Ecuadorian presidents who leave the country with much of the funds in the Treasury, then live in luxury somewhere else. To put the blame on them is stupid, ignorant and unjust. They contribute much more than they take (just like the majority of Mexican illegals in the USA), and only ask for a fair chance, which they do NOT get from the government, at least not under Aznar and the PP.

I find it hypocritical for someone who lives in the US, or Western Europe, for that matter, in the most materialistic and pampered culture in the world, to pass judgement on the motives and actions of people who have been forced by circumstances beyond their control to leave their homes and families (and most of them would gladly return home if they could). Try losing all you have, starving and watching your family break apart, then see if you might jump at any chance to earn a living somewhere else, legally or not!

I get really tired of all these pampered, wealthy westerners putting down so-called "third world" people who are trying to survive, especially when their circumstances many times are the result of the actions of the "first-world" governments, corprorations and banking systems.

Spain certainly profited from the Americas in the past. She has a moral duty and responsibility to help out her former slaves now! I cannot go into a cathedral here without seeing all the gold on the altar and everywhere else and thinking of how much blood was shed to put it there.

>Get off your high horse, Monito. Illegal >immigration is going to happen, regardless of >whether you want it to or not, regardless of >whether it should happen.
>I for one, shall be there illegally next year! >Perhaps I'll serve you a drink or sell you a >flower. Either way, there's nothing you can do >to stop it.
Maybe you should go back to the beginning of the post and read it again...my original statement was NOT that I am against immigration, I am an immigrant myself, as is my wife and 99% of my friends...I was pointing out that people can get into SERIOUS trouble by flouting the laws, something I thought was not being said or was being ignored. If you want to come to Spain (or anywhere in Europe) that is just fine by me, come and enjoy Real Madrid's failure, the bad songs on Los40 and working for minimum wage while you convince yourself your having fun (the truth of Spain is not all la marcha, and hanging out in Chueca, it's much harder and in the end much more boring here than you think!).
If you don't get sent back then good luck to you. So check the post again then tell me to get off my high horse
And my math skills are just fine...

Martin,
If your wife has residency then have her set up the company in her name then she can legally employ you. She would need to file an official job offer at the labor office that only you have the skills and abilities to fill, you pass the interview, you go back to your home country to get the official work visa from the Spanish Consulate and then you can enter again.
Try looking into this route...

>and one of the main reasons I live here is to >protest the horrible things happening in the US, >and things being done by the US to citizens of >other countries.
Sorry I couldn't resist pulling this out of context...how exactly are you protesting? Have you sent your US passport back yet and renounced your citizenship??
Don't get mad I was just wondering,
monito
(Pampered Westener Division)

monito, I'd prefer to send you a private message on this topic but since your profile doesn't allow them....

When quoting text, please use the QUOTE button below your text editor (or write the QUOTE syntax)when posting replies to quote the text of others. Thanks.

Saludos, MadridMan

Monito:

First off, I'm not a Madridista!!! So I will happily enjoy their failure! And as far as the bad songs on Los 40 Principales, I happen to love Andy & Lucas, as well as the steady stream of one-hit wonders being put out by Operación Triúnfo. In fact, I suggest you bring your topic up on Los 40's Que Te Cuentas...You speak Spanish, right? ) You seem to have anger towards Spain, despite your residing there!

And I still think you're on your high horse. See, in the U.S., despite our image of being anti-immigrant, we have visa lottery programs that welcome thousands and thousands of immigrants every year. We have H1-B programs that give companies the right to hire foreign workers. Well, despite my Master's degree and 5+ years work experience, the European Union's stringent immigration laws don't give me much choice if I want to live abroad.

So to suggest that we should all be good citizens and ask a government's permission to take up residence somewhere, well, I think it's absolutely ridiculous and naive given the times we live in.

Monito;

Thank you for the idea. I ran it by her once before, but she said there was some wierd law about employing your relative. I will look into it further.

As for my passport and citizenship, I retain them in the hopes that sanity will return to my country. As a disabled vetran, I feel the govenment owes my my disability payments. Once I can get residency and citizenship, there is a good chance I just might end my US citizenship in favor of Spanish citizenship, or I might get a dual deal.

Protesting one's government's actions and being vehemently against a current regieme (spelling?) does not necessarily make one hypocritical if one does not revoke citizenship, in my opinion.

So you can't tell the difference between anger and boredom...oops...this is anger and this is whatever ...

OK! You don't have to tell me about the generosity of the INS...I was living in NY for maaaany years and I met a lovely Veneszuelan girl and we fell in love, we went back and forth for 2 years her visiting me and me visiting her when we could. We decided to get married so I applied for a Fiance Visa to bring her into the US so we could get married there, the estimated time for this visa application for a Green Card holder 2 years...so I decided to go for my Citizenship which would make it faster, total time 2 years. In the end she was offered a job in Barcelona so I quit my well paid job packed up my apartment and moved in Dec 2001. When her job ended suddenly we were broke and homeless and we ended up going back to England and getting married in London because getting permission in Spain was near to impossible. We moved to Madrid and in the last years we have bought an apartment (hellish ordeal), opened our own business (more hellish ordeal) and now have a 3 month old daughter (who was allowed out of one of Madrid's finest private hospitals with a potentially life threatening birth defect that the doctors didn't notice).
So YOU want to tell me about being naive and ridiculous (that's anger remember)... you have a Masters and you want to come and serve me drinks...fine...whatever
Maybe your work experience is in a field for which there is not really a high demand for in Europe..and I believe that you need a Good Resume to tend bar here...
Cheers
monito

You know, I had a long response planned but judging from the hostility in your posts, I assume the dissatisfaction you feel with your life is more than you can handle right now.

As far as serving drinks goes, I think there is honor in every job and I don't look down on hard labor, as apparently you do. My Master's degree doesn't make me too good to do any job that would make me happy. Standing at a bar, chatting it up with the clientele on a sunny afternoon seems great to me.

My final words to you: Seek therapy, your gloominess is palpable. I say that with the utmost respect and sincerity.

Very cheap shot that one...thanks for being so understanding