I am interested in opening a business in Madrid and need some information about how best to get this done. I have researched this topic extensively but still have some concerns..can anyone help? has anyone done this?

I know that you must first open the business in Spain (which I know how to do)..

My question is regarding the process of applying for "permiso de residir y trabajar." I know that this must be done at the Dept. of Labor in Madrid, but I want to make sure that I am not denied.
-Does anyone know exactly what they are looking for?
-What are the necessary qualifications of the business?
-Is there anything that I must do to ensure that there is no reason for denial?
-Do they give these often?
-How hard are they to get?

Any help would be greatly appreciated...also looking for partner to open bar, anyone interested who has funds?

ryannouveau@aol.com

Thanks-Ryan

Mmmm, you should better ask in the nearest spanish consulate. I'm sure they will clarify how the process is, and probably what they are looking for and the main reasons for denials.

As for the business itself I wish you good luck! Try to distinguish your bar from the others and contracting proffesional waiters should be a must (unless you intend to open a night-pub).

Fernando

My wife opened a "Centro Estetica" a year ago. She is from Ecuador, and has graciously consented to supply an answer.

She says you must go to the Spanish Consulate in the city where you live and apply for your "visa de autonomo" (independent working visa -- that is you are working for yourself, and not for an employer). You must present your plan for the project also. When you get permission to open the business your Residency and Work Permits will be issued automatically. You have to have a bank account with a minimum of 3000€. You will have to go to a Notary naturally too. The Consulate will explain everything.

Good luck, and let us know what your experience is. I plan on doing the same next time I am in the US.

The reason I am asking is that everytime I talk to the next person there is a new way to do it...I was under the impression that the process is this...please correct me in any areas I am wrong.

I was told that would have to get "Investors Visa" from Spanish Consulate in my country, and in order to apply for this you have to get what is called "Permiso de residir y trabajar" from the Dept. of Labor in Madrid.. To do this you must open the business first in spain S.L. and all the steps it entails (ie. bank account 3030Euros, register company name, CIF number, etc..)
Then after setting up the business you apply for "permiso de residir y trabajar." Once you have this,stamped and approved, you have to go to Spanish Consulate with all other paperwork for submission for "Investors Visa."

Considering all the bureaucracy that goes on with this I was considering hiring a lwyer in Spain who speaks english to set-up business and apply for Residence and Work Permits. Is this necessary? I gues my question is if the Consulate makes it difficult to get a visa para cuenta propia?

Thanks for the help..

If anyone has any more information about this, or has first-hand experience, any help would be greatly appreciated.

Hi Ryan,

Did you get your bar opened yet? If so, how did the process work? I might be interested in investing, if it is the business plan looks good. I know several bar owners in Madrid, and I get mixed opinions. Some are doing well, some not. How is it going so far?

Let me know.

Hi Ryan

If you are really serious about this, I would suggest hiring an attorney in Spain to help you through the process. I worked with an attorney in Spain to obatin a VISA and discussed the possiblity of opening my own business. I don't remember exactly how much her fee would have been, but I know that having a Spanish atty handle the paper work (and grease the right palms) can seriously increase your chances of approval and expedite the process as well.

Good luck!

Just a note on the last post. The implication that you have to "grease the right palms" to get something done in Spain should be taken as an insult :p . I've lived in more than one country where it is a given that the "mordida" is required to get anything done. I haven't seen too much of that in my (admitedly) short time in Madrid. In addition, it could well be a violation of US law to pay bribes (definately not/not tax deductible). If you are caught, the fact that you are offering a bribe through an agent will not absolve you of responsibility.

All that aside, I would second the recommendation that you use an advisor who is experienced in working though the paperwork of setting up a business. There is a treaty between Spain and the US that allows nationals of either country to open a business in the other country as either an investment or for international trade. As usual, what constitutes a qualifying investment or internation trade is the devil in the details!

So does anyone have first-hand experience setting up a business in Spain and obtaining all the required paperwork? What besides the obvious written requirements did you encounter when proceeding with this process?

Does anyone know or can anyone recommend a lawyer that specializes in this type of service?

Ryan,

I recently opened up a business in Sevilla and while the process is long and tedious, it is not impossible--trying find work is impossible.

Here is the best advice I can give you: Find a good lawyer to help you through the process. As of December 18, 2003, immigration laws have changed and it is increasingly more difficult.

I can recommend you my lawyer Pura Llorente from Strong Abogados. She studied at NYU, speaks English and has pretty much cared for us through the entire process. You can inquire at www.strongabogados.com.

I want to emphasize, for credibility's sake, that I am only a client and am in no other way affiliated with Pura. I only suggest contacting her and she will at the very least point you in the right direction.

Good luck, and if you have any more questions email me.

Ciao,
Eric

Coincidentally, Descubre, I contacted Pura about a year ago. Unfortunately, she wasn't able to help me with my issue but she was polite in our email exchanges, as I recall. I got her name (and photo) from the http://www.SpainExpat.com site.

Saludos, MadridMan

That's right. The Expat webpage is another good resource and I had almost forgotten about it--a little tonto on my part considering it is on my links page.

Remember Ryan, if you have a sound business idea it is more than likely that you will eventually acquire your papers. But remember, because of high unemployment and a more relaxed working mentality Spain is not the easiest place to set up shop. Fortunately for us, we have had success in our first year, but not everyone has been so lucky.

By no means do I mean to discourage you though. In fact, while other business do not move very fast, it creates an opportunity for you. I am sure it will all turn out great.

Eric

P.S. Madridman, did you ever get that email I sent to you a while back?

Hey Descurbe

Thanks a lot for the name of the lawyer. I had come accross their website before but I did not know anything about them.

Actaully, since I first posted this post I have decided to change the location of the business to Sevilla, so this will make it even easier with Pura. Are you in Sevilla now? How's Feria?

I did not get any email from you, but I would be interested in talking with you a little more. Send it to me again.... I checked out your website, very nice, exactly what is it that your company does? Are you affiliated with Boss club?

A few questions about the visa process:

-Did you set-up your company before applying for the "residency and work permits?"

-How long did it take you from start to finish to get all the approvals?

-How detailed was the "plan de proyecto" that you submitted with the application?

-Did the lawyer firm help you write these documents or did you do it on your own? What do they want to see/hear?

Thanks for your help,
Ryan

ryannouveau@aol.com

Ryan,

What type of bar are you opening? Traditional Spanish bar de copas y tapas, or some other?

I would like to offer you some information regarding your endeavors too, but only if you ask me by email as I would like to keep some names and business entities private. You could private message me as well.

Here's what I have to offer, provided they agree to me offering their information:
1. An excellent lawyer who is also my business partner and a lifelong friend
2. A bank manager that can help you with setting up accounts in Madrid and is also a lifelong friend

My own business may require a registered Spanish office in the next year, so I understand your desire to get the information figured out.

Also, I would be very interested in knowing how this all works out for you, and also if this does work out, if you may interested in expansion ideas in Spain.

andrew

Hello,

Thanks to all of you for the insight and help, I only wish this process was a little easier especially for people with extraordinary circumstances:

I am a US citizen and while living in Spain I had a child with a Spanish citizen and now I am trying to find a way to be with them. I know that getting married would resolve all of the complications but I do not feel I am ready for this step.

The mother of my child and my child recently applied for a Visa to visit the US, but were denied because officials at the Embassy said that they believed she would try to stay in the US as an illegal immigrant. As a result, she has been red-flagged and can no longer travel to the US, even though this was never her intention; she only wanted to come and visit. Now in order for me to see my son and for his grandparents to see him, we have to travel to Spain…because the mother is banned and he is too young to travel alone!

I have talked with many lawyers and they have said there isn’t much we can do except to try to change her personal circumstances in Spain (i.e.: establish a connection with Spain) and then appeal at the Embassy. Does anyone know anything about this?

So in the meantime, I am trying to be able to move there and provide for my family by opening a small business in Sevilla. I have one other business partner, a Spanish citizen, and we will be opening a modernized cocktail/tapas lounge during the day and a bar with music at night. The problem is that I am still unclear of exactly what process must be taken in order to realize this venture, and what the likelihood is that it will be approved. I will be traveling to Spain in June to begin the workings of this project, but I am sure I will have to return several times to submit the Investors Visa application at the Spanish Consulate in the US, and then once again to pick it up once approved.

Has anyone completed this process that could give me some insight about exactly what steps must be taken. As a part of this process I will have to apply for the “Investors Visa” from the Spanish Consulate, and included in this application must be “Application of residency and work permit (cuenta propia).” In the requirements section it says that this application has to be requested and stamped by the Ministry of Labor. What does this mean-just stamped or must get approved first? I have received mixed information regarding this step, and was wondering if anyone could clear it up.

-Do you first establish the company in Spain, then apply for the “Permiso de Trabajo por Cuenta Propia” directly from Ministry of Labor—or do have to submit this form with the Investors Visa Application (Spanish Consulate) before the company is started?

To Megia…. I would greatly appreciate any advice you have to offer and the numbers to your lawyer and bank contacts. ryannouveau@aol.com
-Does this lawyer have experience working with Visas?
-Do you have a business in Spain? What is it?

Thanks again.

Ryan,

I have sent you a private message. Check it out when you get a chance.

As far as lawyers specializing in matters regarding Visa's, I regretfully report that I have no suggestions. That is pitifully outside my realm of knowledge.

On the business end, your plan sounds exciting. The more unique and special your bar can be, the better chance you'll have. You know what Madrid is like!

andrew

Hi, good luck in your venture. When it is up and running (Madrid or Sevilla?) let us all know so we can patronise your bar on our travels.
When it comes to actually running the bar (as opposed to the legal matters such as work-permits etc) it may be worthwhile to speak to other ex-pats already working in this way. For example last year a guy from Nottingham (my home city) opened a cafeteria-bar in Valencia. Despite having a Spanish wife he found it v. difficult the first few months. He has now gained invaluable experience eg If you register for IVA you can claim money back on your purchases. He has also now established contacts that allows him to buy British food and beer (thus maintaining the novelty aspect of the bar). I'll give the address of his bar in case you get the opportunity to goto Valencia:
Cafeteria-Bar Nottingham
C/. Libereros 3
Valencia
96 3942296
Best of luck