Hi all,

Like most people who visit this site, I too am planning to move to Madrid sometime next year.
I am going to try to find a job in either civil engineering or Networking( I am Cisco Certified-CCNA but no expirence). I am orginally from Colombia but a US citizen so I am biligual.
I have a girlfriend and friends there who tell me I shouldn't have a problem finding a job because of my ability to speak both languages but after reading the messages here I'm not so sure it's that easy. My girlfriend and I are planning to get marry but not until later in the future unless it's the only way I can get a job then we will do it sooner.
Does anyone know how soon I would be a citizen if we got married? Does Spain and the US have dual citizenship agreements? Any information regarding marrying a spaniard would be helpful.
thanks

Hola,

From what I know, Spain will not allow you to have dual citizenship, but the US will. My friend had to renounce his US citizenship in a immagration court before they would allow him to be a citizen. Go to the US Embassy in Madrid and tell them you want to renounce your citizenship. They will ask you if you are doing it for tax reasons and take a night to sleep on it. Nothing against Spain, but I am a New Yorker living in Madrid for work for two years and would never think of renouncing my citizenship.

Good Luck

Well, I really don't know about US laws, but I have to disagree with the previous post and say that Spain does indeed allow you to have dual citizenship! I know because I am both a Canadian citizen and Spanish citizen! My understanding is that it is the US that does not allow dual citizenship! Or maybe,it could be that Spain and the US don't have that "agreement", I don't know! Of course, that is just hearsay, I couldn't tell you for sure. As for marrying a Spaniard, my parents have always told me that if I were to marry someone here in Canada, they would automatically become a spanish citizen as well. That's my two cents, but I think you should check with both the US and Spanish embassies. I'm sure they will give you the information you need!

SusiLaGallega

Susi, the situation is different if you are born a child of Spanish parents as opposed to getting married to a Spaniard. Many countries have no problems in accepting dual citizenship for children of their nationals born abroad etc., but if its is a matter of naturalization, they will require the person to renounce their original citizenship.
By getting married to a Spaniard, you do NOT automatically become a Spanish citizen, it just makes naturalization easier. I think you have to be married at least for a year to apply for citizenship. You acquire the right to live and work there by getting married, though.

jmp110372, USA is the one who doesn't allow to have dual citizenship. I know that because I had to renounce to my citizenship in order to become an American. If you are from USA and you apply for a different citizenship, the country where you apply request you to deny you american citizenship because AMERICAN laws require it.

In order to be a citizen you have to be married or live in the country for 2 years.

[ 06-01-2001: Message edited by: Luces de Bohemia ]

thanks for the replies everyone.

the most important thing I get from the
responses is that by marrying a spanish citizen I acquire the right to work and live there. That is good enough for me.

My brother who was a US citizen and now lives in Colombia and is a colombian citizen did not give up his US citizenship. I myself am both a Colombian and US citizen. It's my understanding that the US has agreements with some countries to have dual citizenship. As for spain, I'm not sure.

I am an American who married a Spaniard, had two children born in Madrid, and lived in Madrid for 10 years. By marrying a Spaniard,I was automatically authorized to have a "Residencia" (like a green card) and a "Permiso de Trabajo" (work permit). I was already working in Spain, and had gotten those on my own before getting married, but marriage to a Spaniard entitles you to these things automatically. Also, if you are a foreign mother who gives birth in Spain to children of a Spaniard, you also get these authorizations.

There is no dual nationality agreement between Spain and the U.S. Children born of an American parent and a Spanish parent CAN get temporary dual nationality until age 18 IF CERTAIN REQUIREMENTS ARE MET (it's not automatic). You have to apply for it within a very short timeframe once the children are born, the American parent has to have lived in the U.S. as an adult for a certain number of years consecutively, etc. If you qualify, the US Embassy in Madrid issues a "Certificate of Birth of an American Citizen Abroad," and your child can easily get a U.S. Passport. The child can also get a Spanish passport, using the "Libro de Familia," which is the family document where each marriage, birth and death is recorded.

At age 18, theoretically the children have to choose one citizenship or the other. In practice, they can continue using one or both of the passports as convenient unless they register with the Spanish "mili" or the American military, in which case they could then be tracked by the government. Once they pledge allegiance in the military ("jurar la bander") in either country, they automatically renounce their second citizenship (theoretically, but in practice I haven't seen any real tracking). One caveat to being an American woman married to a Spaniard - as long as the children are in Spain, the father has "patria potestad" or the power of the law, and the children are Spanish citizens. I don't know if this is the same if the Spanish parent is the mother. In my case the Spanish parent was the father, and we actually had to have his permission at the airport every time the children and I wanted to come visit my parents if they showed their Spanish passports. Eventually we just stuck to our American passports and never mentioned the Spanish citizenship. I was advised, however, that even though my children were American, if they were with their father in Spain,they were automatically Spanish while in the country. If it had ever come to a situation where I wanted to get them out and their father did not allow it, I would have had no power to do anything. Even with American passports, Spain considers them Spanish citizens born in Spain of a Spanish father regardless.

Interesting topic

I know three guys of my age (23) which have american passport (I'm not sure of their nationality however). They didn't have to do the "mili" because of it.

As far as I know, Spain has agreements of double nationality with lots of coutries, most of american ones for example (I mean southamericans and centralamericans). I'm not sure if the same applies to the USA.

Fernando

i agree with Lisina1990. And th epoint is, you don't necessarily need to become a citizen of Spain in order to live and work there. You can always stick to being a RESIDENT.

Btw Lisina1990, aside from the 10 years, your story sounds just like mine! Two kids and a Spanish husband!

tracy

Let me clarify the question of dual citizenship for a citizen of the U.S.:

For years the US required a citizen to "choose" one nationality. I had a nice and informative (can you believe this?) conversation with an INS agent in San Francisco and she explained the complicated US policy:

The US no longer requires one to choose, and will allow you to keep (for us "Americans" - people from from the U.S.) your birth-nationality.

Here is where the US's new policy/acceptance becomes less clear: Although they will accept dual national citizens (afterall, how would they know unless we told the INS!), but make it very CLEAR that they expect you, as a dual-national "American", to enter your country on YOUR U.S. passport.

Sounds like a fair immigration policy to me.

Now, the bigger question would be...would Spain REQUIRE us to relinquish our US citizenship (then again, how would the Spanish government really know if we throw away our U.S. passport?). Was this answered above? I read conflicting reports.

I read again Luces' post. So my post is not in response to hers, but just clarification for us U.S. born and fully naturalized U.S. citizens on our country's policy with this group of citizens becoming "dual nationals."
The U.S. has every right to expect a foreign national to renounce their citizenship. Some may see this as arrogant, but you need to understand this country only works because of unity and faith to the United States. If someone wants to be naturalized here, the U.S. believes that in return you pledge your loyalty to her.

Because of this view I respect other countries (like Spain's policy? - still not clear in this post) forcing us "Americans" to renounce our citizenship - it's only fair that other countries do as we do!

[ 01-03-2002: Message edited by: MadridMan ]