Toddy, .

Man! Where on this planet (if on this planit indeed) do you live. Your profile says U.S.A. but I can't imagine where. Sounds like you live in a dream world, maybe inside a Leave it to Beaver episode?

How can you leave a post like the one above with such an elitist quote? Madrid is a city and as cities go it is not what you make it out to be. Have you even been here? Ok, there are prostitutes and homeless and as you so understandingly put it "drunken filth" (who may or may not have fall en through the cracks of society) but what city does not have these problems.

Please think before posting

Saludos,
jer...

p.d. MM, I was surprised to read that you do not want to have a little Madrileño/a of your own Could be a new site at www.madridboy.com or www.madridgirl.com

Oh yeah, good luck with your MultiMedia course.

Jer,

Don't be so harsh, please. No, I'm joking.

I also often find Toddy's posts very imaginative, but I suppose she has her right to express her misinformed opinion on Madrid, Spain, and science-fiction politics. . Spain at the Nafta!!! She is killing me (LOL). Why not at the former COMECON of the USSR, or at the SEATA, for Asia. Maybe at the Mercosur, with Argentina and Brasil?.

We both know that most of what she refers to is located in very specific areas of the town, and that you can live years in Madrid and not see it if you don't go specifically for it. Only the area of Casa de CAmpo (not very downtown), where the Amusement PArk is, and has a number of prostitutes working in the streets, and in the Gran Via area side streets there are both prostitutes and homeless. Just the most visited area by 'downtown tourists'.

Hoewever, none of these areas are dangerous, and, whereas some of the girls are seen by kids when going to the a. park by car, they don't offer to them as far as I know!!!

Ignacio

Hmmmm,
I wonder why so many Spaniards have chosen to live in protected places in Madrid. I guess you should be asking them what planet are they from. Get off your Don Quixote high horse and look at the realities of Madrid.
1. Soaring VIOLENT crime rate.
2. Beggars, drunks, drug addicts are almost on EVERY street.
3. A lot of noise pollution at ALL hours(even the siesta)
4. Great Spanish food
5. Great new blend of Spanish and foreign
cuisine
6. Great new blend of Flamenco and foreign music
7. Great Flamenco
8. Cheap drinks
9. Beautiful women (but that's everywhere in Spain)
10. More jobs (albeit a lot of temp. and low paying) than most other parts of Spain.

Emotional Spanish pride aside, don't you all think it's very reasonable to look at Madrid's problems so that they can be worked on? Or do you think we should all be riding on Quixote's horse?

Please stay on topic ( ABOUT ME ME ME MEEE!!! ). There are many discussions on the quality of life in Spain in the "About Spain" forum and safety in Spain in the "Safety & Security" forum. Thank you.

So please, keep all discussions about how/if I could get MY YANKEE BUTT over to Spain!!!

Quixote's horse?!...I guess that's the horse that kicked me in the face recently and broke my bones!!! Don't you ever try to tame it, MadridMan, it's unpredictable!
Good luck with your classes!

Good thing Madrid has no coast otherwise with all that great food all the marauding sharks hanging around Florida's beaches would be there too!! Of course I don't mean to compare prostitutes and sharks, all they share is living off a very primal instinct...

Madridman, back to you, I once was confronted with living in Spain by the love of my life. Via a summer vacation, my love broke down and told me that she wanted to live in Spain. I became VERY confused. It didn't make sence. We BOTH had good jobs in the US. Neither of us had jobs in Spain. (heck, I could barely say hola)
but time passed and emotions subsided a little............and we came back to the US, continued our great jobs,and started a family. We now vacation in Spain and have an INCREDIBLE time. My suegros babysit(like great Spanish abuelos do) and I enjoy having a little vino with my suegro.
In fact, one day we plan on buying a vacation house. Some of my wife's family members are trying to come over to find work. One even got a green card.
Does this mean that the US is better, no. It just means that as Americans we are very very lucky to be able to choose our work(for the most part).
I don't know if your ladyfriend is pushing you. If she is, she's WRONG. Nobody should be preasured one way or the other.
My advise to you is to wait. There is NO reason to rush. If everything works out for you and you find a great job and you are happy in Madrid, then fantastico. However, if you feel uncomfortable, STOP, take a deep breath and wait.
I can only speak from my personal love experience. Waiting was the most rational approach and it worked out perfecto. We both now have come to the conclusion that there are good and bad things in both countries. We appreciate the good in both.
Buena suerte, and I hope one day to say en hora buena!

toddy, as I think I said earlier, I'm in no rush. In fact, I'm on a 2-year plan and expect to have everything prepared for my departure/arrival for/to Spain...if it does in fact come to pass. We'll see. 2-years is a long time and anything can happen, but I'm working towards this goal. How could I live life knowing I didn't do EVERYTHING possible to make this come true? I can't. I need to be able to look in that mirror everyday, either a mirror in the USA or a mirror in Spain, for the rest of my life knowing I exhausted ALL possibilities.

I WANT to be in Madrid. I WANT to be with my ladyfriend for the rest of my days. Call me sentimental.... OR, just call me MENTAL. heehhee... But call me in Madrid when you all get there and let's have a coffee on the terraza if the season is right.

I wish you all the best Madridman!
I look forward to having a cafe or a little vino with you in Madrid!
I'll invite you!
buena suerte!

Hey! I just found this thread (while searching for other info) and just have to throw in my two cents worth...especially after reading all the posts, and having met MM and his "ladyfriend" at the recent MM party.

MM, I understand your dilemna about the marriage deal. My husband was against the idea of marriage at first (well, still is, but we are married now), but the more we talked about it the more we realized that it was the only way for us to legally be together (world politics really suck sometimes) be it in the United States or in Spain. My husband was a absolute Angel about the whole marriage process --hence his name-- (in the end, in the beginning there were a lot of tears and tension...my mother is a methodist minister).

Issues between you and your lady friend are definitely personal and I don´t want to interfere, but just want to throw out there the idea of a relationship being a shared responsibility. If you are willing to take the leap to move to Spain, wouldn´t she be willing to take the leap and get married, if it doesn´t mean anything to her, then wouldn´t she be willing to do it for you, for whom it means so much? I just had to put that out there because Angel and I really worked on that piece for a bit.

It sounds to me, from your posts, that you are bit more cautious and conservative (and perhaps a perfectionist) than many of us here on the board (would that make you a Virgo?). A friend once told me "un paso lento, pero firme". Sounds to me like you are moving in the right direction....2 year plan, skill building, etc.

I left a $55,000 year job in television in Philadelphia (and I was on a fast track to be one of the two top execs) to move to Spain and be with Angel. People called me crazy (we too had a 3 year long distance relationship with mega phone bills, lots of email, and monthly trips between the continents). Wondered how I could base a relationship on "so little contact", but the fact of the matter was that Angel and I communicated better than many married American couples that I know.

I digress, I just wanted to animarte un poco to not give up your dream...of your ladyfriend or of Spain. If it is something that you really want, it will work out for you here. After 8 months, I feel like I am really getting somewhere, my legal paperwork is still in the process, but I am working, I am happy without the pressures of consumer driven society (I had it all and threw it away, I was tired of the rat race), and madly in love...With Angel, my "new life" and Spain.

Go for it!

WOW! You really did DIG DEEP! Hahahaa.. Well okay.. since you brought it up.. hehehe..

The "skill building" is still part of the plan, but the time it takes to build such skills leaves me obsolete by the time I have them. Chica, YOU left a good job to be with Angel. I wouldn't be leaving such a good job, but it is secure and with a decent, liveable income with good benefits. Probably with you, you left your job to be with Angel who probably also has a good-paying job. My ladyfriend is at about the level in Madrid as I am here in the USA. She already supports herself and her 78 year old mother (which is why she cannot leave her to live here with me).

Imagine if I went there, with no job, got married, and then she'd have to support all three of us for some extended period of time until I, probably then 37 years old, could get some $6-9/hour, illegal-teaching-english job. Many would say, "Well hey! At least you're together!" And this is what I say too, but let's be a little more practical, shall we? (I tend to lean towards NOT being practical, but my ladyfriend is the opposite)

Over Christmas, we discussed starting the necessary paperwork to get married when I return in the spring and we'll do that. She (and I) doesn't want us to live like paupers (poor people) and struggling with all the economic-tensions that usually brings.

High Unemployment in Spain -- highest in western europe. If only... if only things were better. If only... If only someone with some power or in a decision-making position could HELP me get a decent job there. I know- I know. EVERYONE wishes this. This is PART of the reason why I made and continue with MadridMan.com. It's been GREAT to make contacts, but none have proven useful in getting jobs in Madrid. I've made wonderful friends and some of whom have very very useful advice (i.e. Chica! ) and this all helps with the transition and in my mental well-being while I'm living in Madrid. Maybe, over time, this could help in other ways. Not sure.

So the question "Should MadridMan go to Spain?" should probably be re-titled "CAN MadridMan make a living in Spain?" Sure, I'll be happy to FINALLY be living daily life with my ladyfriend, whom I've been dating long-distance for the past 8+ years. We get along just fine in living situations. But can I contribute to the relationship financially?? Can I help our futures? Will we both retire together being as poor then as we would be at the beginning or be forced to work 'til the day we die? These are the REAL questions.

I invite any other specific points of view on this topic as it can only help my situation. But please, I won't entertain any "JUST DO IT!!" or "TAKE A CHANCE!!" type comments. Thanks very much.

Saludos, MadridMan

[ 01-13-2002: Message edited by: MadridMan ]