Puna, for many people, specially after Irak, the USA is a terrorist organization. It's matter of opinion.

Blame on policemen for not evacuating the warning of Hipercor (which ETA deliberately communicated wrong with an error of 1 hour), not to the terrorists who placed a bomb in crowded big stores. Incredible...

The thing is that... you are lying.

Year and a half ago the police captured two ETA terrorists who were transporting 800 kilos of explosives (the sum of the eleven bombs of this weekend made 2 kilos) who were destinated to a mass bombing of either Torre Piccasso (a 120 store-building) or Barajas Airport.

On Christmass Night (24th December) of 2003 two terrorists were captured with 5 suitcases full of explosives destinated to explode in Chamartín rail station in various trains.

Fernando

Ignacio,

My comments were in reference to ETA being referred to - on a global status - as a terrorist organization.

The US actions in Iraq were not part of the context ... And as far as my approval of that - I think all of you know where I stand - if not, as a reminder - Bin Lauden was who the US should have gone after - not the Iraqis.

But, back to the thread and my comment - the "revolutionary tax" is EXTORTION therefore, ETA is terrorist in that it targets those who refuse to pay extortion and reporters are doing their jobs - so if being able to kill a reporter is not considered terrorism in your eyes - a shop keeper is doing his/her job as well - does that make the killing of a shop keeper also not a terrorist act?

And your point is, Quintos?

We were discussing the press, not the governments of other countries. Do a google search of the event and you will see corroboration of our discussion.

Not necessarily, Quintos, it merely shows ignorance. And to a great degree lazyness. They do very superficial reporting, they are not takling the time to thoroughly research an issue, there is no longer the academic rigour in the schools of journalism as they once had. If they had they would call them terrorists and not Basque separatists, that's an entirely different group of people, as Fernando rightly point's out.

Booklady, in her much more tempered wisdom than I possess, stated the current journalsitic situation very thoroughly -

Thank you, Carmen ....

The thing is... it's you, as usual, who keep on lying. There is nothing worng with it, people who has been in the forum for some time knows that what you say is usually proved false afterwards, so there is nothing new under the sun.

But anyways...

-who says those explosives were for what you said?, the same government that lied as well with the Atorcha 11-M bombings. Good source!

- Even if they were for those places, ETA would have warned in advance, like they have done EVERYTIME they bomb a building.

Puna:

An organization that murders people is terrorist wether it's a government or not.

An extortion is money withdrawed with force or menaces, which is exactly what any government makes with taxes, or I, at least, wouldn't pay the huge amount they discount from my salary (I would pay gladly a reasonable one). S, the point is who's got the legitimacy to extract taxes. The Spanish Government say they are, ETA say it's themselves.

Killing a shop keeper or a reporter who is just doing his job, and not involved in teh Media war or anyone who is innocent IS terrorism.

And ETA IS terrorist according to that definition, same as USA government is if we use the same measures.

And ETA IS extorting with the "REvolutionary" tax, the same the spanish Government is extorting ME with the "Non-revolutionary" tax.

It's amazing how few empathy people have. Why people don't ever try to be on another people's shoes? Imagine you are a basque patriot who wants independence, you may or not consider ETA legitimate, but if you do, then, it's the Spanish Government the one who is extorting you, under menace of jail and losing your belongings.

Based on the posting prior -

Then, in cool, calm and rationally thought out terms, cuold someone please explain to me why it is that an overwhelming number of people living in the Basque areas are gainst both independence from Spain and ETA? This has been proven true over a number of years - both in the vote and in public statements made by all sides - except ETA of course.

Yes, but for those who support ETA and for the nationalists half of the population that is against ETA or ETA's aims are NOT basques.
Here's one!

Against ETA, because of their methods, maybe 4/5 or more, BUT against independence, that we simply don't know.

People in the "nationalist" parties have different degrees of radicalism, and that varies with time or with razzias against the basqye parties, media, institutions (like the PP's recent ones) and that matter has never been voted.

-who says those explosives were for what you said?, the same government that lied as well with the Atorcha 11-M bombings. Good source!

The thing is that I know a director of Barajas Airport and he says that the police told him that ETA's intention was to blob up an airport terminal. But perhaps you have a better source among the authors of the frustrated bombing.

- Even if they were for those places, ETA would have warned in advance, like they have done EVERYTIME they bomb a building.[I]

The thing is that they would have bomb one of the most traffic intense airports in Europe, and who knows how many innocents could have been killed. Besides, material damages would have been huge.

[I]An organization that murders people is terrorist wether it's a government or not

Only a government has the rightful and legitimate use of force, which is granted by democratic elections and constitutions. Comparing a terrorist organization with a government is a bad joke.

In a similar manner, saying that to pay taxes is a kind of extorsion is to devalue mafia-like methods used by ETA to maintain its criminal activities.

Killing a shop keeper or a reporter who is just doing his job, and not involved in teh Media war or anyone who is innocent IS terrorism.

You really have a curious concept of what press liberty is: "journalist who don't think like ETA should be killed". I have no words...

It's amazing how few empathy people have. Why people don't ever try to be on another people's shoes? Imagine you are a basque patriot who wants independence, you may or not consider ETA legitimate, but if you do, then, it's the Spanish Government the one who is extorting you, under menace of jail and losing your belongings.

I suggest you to go back to the school and learn the basic frame in which a democracy is carried cause you are really confused about liberties and who has the democratic legitimation to dictate laws and rule.

ETA is a mafia, a terrorist band born in the core of a low culture rural region. It would be pathetic if not for those murdered.

Fernando