Iraq was an ally when they attacked Iran. Again, I don't know if calling them "Eurocowards" is constructive. We, the United States, are as guilty in giving the terrorists the mindset that they could get away with anything as anyone. BJ Clinton pulled us out of Somalia after 18 of my brethren were killed and showed UBL that we were too afraid of a few bodybags to come to any resolution. Clinton's justice dep't also came up with that assinine policy of pursuing terrorists in a "Law" fashion, only bringing the ones perpetrating the crimes to justice, and that too was a failure. Kerry is pondering the same policy, of course, he won't, nor would he ever, get my vote. If Spain ousted Aznar for issues other than the attacks, fine. If they did it because they wanted out of this war on terror, I feel they are making a grave mistake. ...one that we, the United States, have made as well. What comes around, goes around. I pray nothing happens to Spain on the scale of 9/11, but if it does, I wonder how they will address the issue.

AAAAck! - Home of the Brave, you bake great points - then throw out a slur and close minds - - - I know that these are emotional issues - but the points themselves are powerful enough without the name-calling.

Fup

A few points here...

1. Was PP favored to win the election prior to the bombings? Yes.

2. Did the bombings effectively change people's minds as to how to vote? Yes.

3. Did the Socialists benefit from this swing in votes to win? Yes.

4. Did al Qaeda want PP out because of their stance against Muslim extremists? Yes.

5. Did al Qaeda want the Socialists in because of their softer stance on getting involved in world terrorist situations? Yes.

6. Did the people of Spain do exactly what al Qaeda hoped they would do? Yes.

Since the answer to all six of these questions is yes, I can only conclude that al Qaeda effectively changed the government of Spain through terrorist bombings against Spanish citizens, and that was their intent from the beginning.

As for Spain's being involved in Iraq, or any other operations throughout the world, that's a matter for their new government to decide. The people have spoken, and whether or not we like it doesn't matter. They had a right to vote the way they did, and even though they are letting their allies down in the matter of Iraq, that's their business.

As for Spain's troops in Iraq, it was only a token force to show solidarity anyway. Were they even combat units? Probably not.

We can pick up the slack on the small amount of support they gave us in a heartbeat. Why should we be offended? But we also know who our friends are, don't we?

Wolf

And this is when Al-Qaeda voted in Spanish Polls and anti-americanism triumphs in my country (see Deivid messages for an example).

Is this an exageration? I don't think so. It is the same silogism that has been used to make this reasoning:

a) The Spanish Government supported Iraq's War
b) Al-Qaeda (or a fanatic moslem terrorist band) did the bombings of last Thursday.

c) Therefore, Spanish Government if to blame for Thursday's bombings.

Australia, Poland and other countries not only supported the war, but sent troops to fight Iraq's army. Spanish troops only took part in the post-war, in the same role as in Afghanistan a year later, and in Bosnia, Kosovo, Albania, Macedonia and Croatia. Bali, Tunisia, Morocco and Iraq suffered Al-Qaeda bombings and they hadn't supported the war.

Moreover, this same reasoning should make us conclude that ETA kills because the Government jails its members. What would happen now if it was ETA instead of Al-Qaeda? What if after troops came back we are object of new bombings (as is most probable)?

So what's different now? The difference is that PSOE used the opposition against Iraq's War as an issue to achieve the government. Anti-americanism has always been popular among socialists and communists since the times when they were financed by URSS in the clandestinity of Franco's dictatorship. Unfortunately this has not changed in the years of democracy.

Zapatero (with the aid of other political parties), managed to take control of discontent against the Spanish Government's policy on the Iraq's War issue. He obviously didn't expect to win in this poll, but now is prisoner of his own promises (made not to be fullfilled), and will have to call back troops or face a great discredit among spaniards (he is going to discredit himself and Spain anyway in the eyes of foreign governments).

I'm sure that the change of government has nothing to do with cowardy (after all, people went massively to vote), but with a perfect and legitimate (though misserable in my opinion) management of the bombings against the Government. Anyway, we spaniards decided that way, and this is the Government we will have for the next four years.

I tell you now what will happen in the future: Zapatero as the new President will do the impossible to maintain troops in Iraq (he knows very well what will cost him internationally to do otherwise). But don't expect him to be as a staunch supporter of american policies as Aznar. You should expect spanish government from this point to be friendly but cold (think of the Spanish Government of 10 years ago).

Al-Qaeda has had a decisive role in the elimination of one of the best US allies. And my fellow countrymen have been pawns in their hands.

This has been, without doubt, the worst week in years for my country (at least under my point of view).

PD: Do you have in the USA a good work for me? I feel I will have to move when the unemployment starts to rise again.

I hate to politicize the train bombing but it was already politicized by the terrorists who used it to accomplish there goals....Sadly the terrorists have gotten what they always wanted...? A government who would not get in there way of minipulating the world and taking it over for there extreemest muslim desires...the terrorists used the bombing to get rid of an undesirable conservative government and used it to install a much more sympathetic and easy to push around government (the socialist)...Yes! sadly, Al Quiada got just what it wanted and now has had its evil actions validated by getting what it wanted...if they would have suffered by the spanish populaces calling for more conservative messures and more involvement in fighting terrorism in places like Iraq and elsewhere then they would think twice about killing innocent spainards but Now they are stregthened and realise how effective and fruitful more killing and terror can be...It is trully a sad day!

Spaniards are not cowards. They never supported us in the war in Iraq, they sent in troops to hep rebuild Iraq after the war was over.

Imagine the US in a similar situation. Which did happen. Vietnam. Democrats were in power, and finally when a Republican took office (Nixon), we pulled out of Vietnam because it wasn't working. Now we can cast stones at the Spaniards?

Spain is still an ally, but whether or not they will be as close a friend as they were under PP remains to be seen, but American opinion can go a long way towards shaping that relationship. If we denounce Spain, and Spaniards, because a politician changed their course of direction, we're being foolish. The only one we'll hurt is ourselves.

We still have lots of friends in Spain, and their voices will be the conscience of the new government unless we make it impossible for that to happen.

Wolf

This is true!!! but Al Quaida still won in the spainish election and north vietnam won when Nixon took office...these are undeniable facts!

SKI, Wolf: Give a chance to the new spanish government. I may disagree in general with PSOE and how it has achieved power, but I don't either believe they are going to be weak against terrorism.

And anyway, in four years we will have new polls if they don't do a good performance in the government.

Fernando

Ski,

I'm painfully aware of what happened in Vietnam. I was one of the people who served there. I did three tours in country.

I don't have any remorse for having been there, and I think we were wrong for not finishing the job, but we didn't, and we really can't feel that the Spaniards have done anything that abandoned a cause more than what happened in Nam.

We have to give Spain a chance to find themselves with their new elected officials. Heck, we go through that all the time here too, and somehow or another, countries in the world find ways to work with us. Let's do the same thing for Spain. We owe it to those Spaniards who have supported us. Fair enough?

Wolf

Face it, Spain. You just blinked.

Remeber that success breeds success. But when terrorist attacks commence before parliamentary elections in Britain, Italy, Australia, the Us and elsewhere, I won't hold you responsible.