Just back from a wonderful trip to Spain,taking in Madrid, Seville and Orgiva.Just thought I would share with you a scam that a team is working on the Madrid metro.The team appeared to be from South America and heres how it works.Man and fat woman get on the metro at different stops,fat woman jams herself between the doors and you ,when door opens ,no amount of "perdons" move her out of the way. Man working with the woman helpfully tells the woman to move as you try to squeeze passed her as he helps himself to your wallet.Luckily they didn't get anything as I managed to get my credit cards cancelled in time,but the police here seem powerless to stop these people,and with a welcome like this to Spain, it must be harming the tourist industry.

An interesting scam, indeed, but not new. They usually work the same Metro line - one that serves Atocha Renfe seems to be their favorite. Once, I saw a pair on the train as I was going to Atocha to get our AVE tickets for the following morning and I saw the same pair on the way back. Maybe they were stalking me: Trying for an opportune time to lift my wallet. They didn't!

When you see something or someone unusual on the Metro, look around. You may be able to spot the partner. Gypsies almost always work in pairs. And Gypsies don't always look like gypsies.

Sorry to hear about your bad experience on the Metro! The solution I've found is I simply don't carry a wallet anymore, or more than about 50 euros at a time. People have to reach pretty deep and noticeably into your pockets to grab individual bills.

I've never been a victim (nor witness) of any sort of crime in Madrid. Because of all the stories you hear about pickpocketing, a couple years ago I started carrying a kind of change purse or zip-top wallet made of cloth (actually it's colorful, sewn thread bought in Perú) which I keep in my front pocket. After a few weeks of doing that in Spain and then coming home I found it was not only more safe but MUCH more comfortable in this way too. No more "rump-bump". hehehe... Some "machistas" say/tease it's not very masculine to carry this kind of thing in my front pocket but I don't care.

Saludos, MadridMan

Thanks for the support guys.My solution was to buy a wallet at El Corte Ingles,this has a chain on it that hooks on to your belt loop. I used this for the rest of my stay in Spain-including Sunday morning at the Rastro and had no problems!Seriously though I wouldn't recommend struggling through the metro with a lot of luggage-you're just too much of a target.On a more positive note it didn't spoil our Holiday-we had a great time!

My wife has her own novel solution - she has a small bum bag type purse that has a really strong velcro loop which she wears over her shoulder and attaches it to her bra strap - I'd dare any thief or pickpocket to try and snatch that!!But if you do see a deranged Irish woman running through the Metro topless you'll know what has happened

I second (or is it third?) the idea of not carrying a wallet in a strange city. Usually I can carry an ID and credit card in a back pocket that buttons, and just the money I think I need in a front pocket. Sometimes I may also carry a pouch that loops on my belt...good for carrying my passport.

nj writes: Would she be chasing a bewildered-looking Gypsy?

You have to qualify that! It can't be following a UK win over (or loss to) Spain in World Cup competition - the main difference here being: the ladies are carrying their own bras as they race topless thru the Metro.

I guess a Manchester United or Arsenal win over Réal Madrid would produce similar actions.
BTW
How can one tell a deranged Irish woman from all those other women running topless thru Madrid's Metro?

A friend of mine has a daughter studying in Spain now, and she claims the police have worked something out with the pickpockets: if they leave the purses and wallets in some special location, minus the money....but credit cards and such intact...the police just don't worry about chasing anyone. It sounds too crazy to be true...along the lines of an urban legend...but sure enough, all her credit cards and her purse (recently ripped off her) have been returned. Come on, those of you in Spain, is this true? What's the word on the street?

Well, as for the Credit Cards, I couldn't tell, but documents and wallets have always appeared thrown or hidden. They are not so worthy, and they are a proof against them.

When I worked installing wires at the streets, twenty years ago, I once found a place, in a hole under a small bridge, where there were about 20/30 purses and wallets and their documents inside.

I don't think the have made an agreement or anything, but it is probable that police has decided to act like that, since they are overwhemed by these crimes with the number of policemen working on this, and the laws we have. Then, they may have made the rumour spread.

I think it's fine. Of course, an agreement between them would be unthinkable, but this wouldn't be exactly that, and, since police never recovers the money and few times the other items in 95% of the cases at least, it would bepragmatic, because it would avoid the bad use of credit cards (although most time we realize that and cancel them in time) and we get our documents and wallet/purse back, and they are valuable for us!

La maestra- Highly doubtful. And since whatever ID's were in there or the type of Credit cards were obviously foreign, it could be that they didn't bother- most credit card companies are quick to call if they see spending in a foregin country and more if its being used on a kind of spree- so they're sure to get caught early- whatever the reason- it was lucky she got her credit cards back- if I were her I'd still call to see if they did use them once or twice (enough to get something- but not to set off the red flags to the credit card company!)

My purse got lifted once (literally, a friend and I were taking turns carrying the purse as her stuff was in it also) and she set it down, when she turned around, it was gone. We found it the next day- abandoned, with my ID's ( I don't go out at night with my credit cards) my purse itself, and the kleenex I had in it- they took my cash (about 3mil pts when it happened) my used lipstick (which I never understood- although it was a killer color!) and a lighter I carry around- but it was good to get the ID's back- as I don't like to carry my passport around, but usually go with just my Drivers License and student ID.

What I do is I have this very small zip bag, size of a credit card, where I carry my credit card, my id and the money that I will spend that day. That little sip bag has a loop (kond of a key chain loop0 that I attach to the side of my underware, you know if you are wearing a bikini or thong the side strap is very thin, so I just hook it there and I put the little bag on my hip under my pants. It is very easy to reach if I need it and it is always safe. Sometimes in stores is a little embarassing I have to take out my underware strap to take out the little bag, or it shows a little, but after the second time, I just really do not care anymore... It has worked great all over Europe, and I will just have a shopping bag where I have my camera or a sweater.... I look like a local and my money and credit card is safe....

Juana,

I pin my money and cards to a similar cloth contraption to my bra. Women my age are always adjusting their bras so it is natural for me to reach in and take out my card. But, Churrocaliente started a thread here about the Wonder Bra that has a zipped pocket, I'm getting one for my next trip.
Saludos,
Carmen

The front pocket deal usually works, BUT. . . I had my wallet stolen by a team working, where else, the Atocha RENFE number one line. The man appeared drunk, dropped some change, and picked it up, then while down around my feet, grabbed my pants legs and while I was trying to bash his head with my fists, his female accomplice snatched my wallet from my front pocket. I am very alert, paranoid, but they managed to get me.

Now I just carry my bus-metro abono id and a little money in it with a copy of my passport. You can't tell I have anything on me. If anyone drops anything near you, or obstantly blocks you LOOK OUT, you are being set up! This happened once to my wife and I as we were passing through the doors to the metro, and I alerted her, and sure enough they tried to get us. I looked directly at one of the men and said "¡Lo intiendo que tu hacer, ladrone!" (I know, my Spanish is terrible!), and he was startled, then they split, very fast.

As for getting from the airport to the city, the best is to have a friend pick you up, the next best is a cab, the next best are the buses on the lower (arrivals) level to Plaza Colon. They are very cheap, have luggage racks, and run frequently. Just be careful on them also! The metro is definitely the last resort, best if you have no, or minimal luggage. Your luggage screams "I'm here, a tourist, so steal my stuff!" Kind of a walking buffet for thieves. Yet another reason for traveling super light.

By the way, if you are coming to Madrid, and need a guide, or help, I will be glad to help, if I am free. Of course a generous tip would be welcome, but I am mainly interested in people having a really great time here, to love it as much as I do, and to be able to see the things they normally would not. After three years plus of living here full-time, I have a pretty good knowledge of the place, especially the cultural scene. I am not a barfly, or party person, but THAT action is not difficult to find here! For flamenco, or art, or theater and such, I have good contacts. I have met some very nice, interesting people doing this, and want to continue to help people land easily here. Post a PM to me or at martin@1stclasspinups.com and I'll see what I can do. If you email me, please put something like EMAIL FROM MADRIDMAN MEMBER in CAPS so I can see it above the spam, otherwise it might get pitched out by accident!

Be safe, have a GREAT time, and come back, soon and often!

I have noticed here, as well as in my own research that muggers, pickpockets, gypsies, etc., etc., seem to be a concern in Spain.

I am a female who will be traveling to Madrid in January as a student. I am expecting my school to send someone to meet me, but am concerned that they will be running late, therefore leaving me standing with two months worth of luggage! To what degree are we allowed to "defend" ourselves and our belongings? I may be a small-sized female, but I pack a lot of spunk!

I so appreciated the posted advice on how to carry money, passports, credit cards, etc. I will strictly adhere to them. These were ideas which I knew nothing about, and feel that I may have already been saved from becoming a potential victim.

This is what happens when you live in small-town, USA! Naive and gullible.

Thank you!

Martin de Madrid writes: That sounds like the same team I saw working that same Metro line 2-years ago. Business must be very good for them! The male, who appeared drunk or under the influence of drugs, didn't look like a gypsy. He was tall, fair complexion and pretty heavy. As I said on an earlier post: I saw them when I was going to Atocha Renfe to pick up my AVE tix and reservations and again on the return trip on the same metro line.

Hello Dana,
if you come with so many lugagge and they don't go to look for you, you'll probably won't have any other option than taking a taxi if you know where you have to go, because going in the metro with so many things could be uncomfortable.
In the airport there's a lot of security and there's no problem as long as you keep an eye on your belongings, so you can wait there as much as you want.
Anyway I have never hear of people robbing the lugagge to a person while keeping an eye on it, thieves normally look for wallets, money, things with a small size and a big value.......

getting doubts about going

Indie, if you're Dutch you no doubt have been to Amsterdam's Red Light district - it has a bad rep but it's very seldom anything happens there. Unless, of course, you walk around on your own on the side streets where the crack heads gather at 5-6 in the morning (yes, I've done that and I'm not doing it again, even though nothing happened). Madrid is oh so much less scary than Red Light - there are also a few streets that are not so nice but that's it.
And as far as pickpockets go, you have one on every tram in Amsterdam - my mum lost her wallet the day before Christmas last year, great gift Santa! But that's the way big cities work. The difference is that you know your own city, you know the language. But you can get to know Madrid and Spanish and find out that it's not worse than anywhere else.
Sorry, I'm getting emotional here - I sometimes feel that people think of Madrid like some kind of nest of thieves and pick pockets. I think it's the friendliest capital in Europe, it wins this competition hands down.

While in Madrid I used the Metro with a backpack on and never had any problem at all. Before I left for Spain I purchased a leather wrist wallet like the one Sheryl Crow wears. It looks good like leather wrist jewelry and everything was safe. My husband tried to pull it off my wrist and almost pulled my arm out of its socket instead. I bought this wrist wallet at wilma world

Warning: there are two professional pick-pocketers, 12 years old gypy girls working in the Plaza Mayor area. They try to sell you flowers with one hand while they take charge of your bag contents with the other, and they are good, watch out.

Andrés

I've said it before, but I'll say it again. . . I've lived in Madrid and environs for over 3 years, and it is SAFE SAFE SAFE! Yes, there are pickpockets, but they generally don't hurt people, even though there are a few exceptions, naturally. BUT I have witnessed incredible things here, like a whole block of neighbors shouting at a thief who was ripping off a Japanese tourist, and then everyone went down to help him! Or the two people who tried to trip the thief who stole my wallet as I chased him through the Metro. Or ditto when I saw a man running with a Chinese tourist shouting behind him that the runner was a thief. The list could go on and on. Madrid has a lot of really nice people.

There are some things which drive me crazy about life here (inconsiderate, unsafe, speeding drivers, for example, and the government bureaucracy. . .), but I LOVE living here, and hate the thought of having to return to the USA. For my part, I'll take Madrid any day to almost anywhere else!

¡Vivá Madrid!

I still love Madrid and Spain in general, but I have to say that this has also been the place where my family and I have been most affected by crime in the shortest period of time.

My parents were here for a three-week visit (that also included about ten days in Paris and Italy). We went to Barcelona this last weekend. At the Barcelona Sants station, coming in from the airport, my senior citizen mother suffered a pickpocket attempt. I had turned away for a second, when I turned back, I saw a blonde caucasian woman (about 35 years old, shoulder length hair in a pony tail, thin, with a light colored jacket draped over her crooked forearm) pressing up against my mother and her handbag. I jumped at the woman, as did my father, and she pulled back. We saw that my mother's handbag had one of the zippers unzipped (luckily, she didn't have anything more valuable than a lipstick in that compartment). Basically, in state of shock, we let the woman go when it looked as if she hadn't gotten anything, and she jumped back on the train as it was pulling out.

A couple of days later, back in Madrid, my parents were at the courtyard in front of the Reina Sofia museum. They dropped their guard for one moment and didn't keep an eye on the non-descript black canvas bag in which they were carrying a video camera, and -- poof!-- it was gone.

Now, of course, they could always have been more careful, but it does say something about the environment here in Spain when one can't even let down one's guard for a single moment.

In his post Eduardo said: My sister lost her make-up bag to a pickpocket on c/ de la Cruz. By the time she replaced the "necessities" it was over $60! That stuff is expensive!

Just back from my first trip to Spain and thankful I found and read many of the messages on the board. Pick pockets are alive and well in Madrid. While boarding the Renfe at Atocha a man brushed by me and then got back on right behind me, kneeling down to "brush off my pants leg" while his accomplice tried to put his hand down my pants pocket!! As soon as it happened I knew what was up because I had read about it hear and gave the man at my feet a shove with my umbrella and a loud yell to stop!!! He and his friend exited the train at the next stop. To top it off, he actually turned to me and said "I'm sorry"!! I couldn't believe it! Anyway, if his friend had managed to get his had in my pocket he would have come away with nothing - I carry my wallet in a zippered breast pocket of my jacket!

In a strange and bizarre way it warms the cockles of my heart that the age old tradition of pickpocketing is alive and well in Madrid.

I know that you are probably saying that I've lost my mind. We have all complained about the civil evils of pickpocketing,, but after the true horror of 11 of March when Madrid bled and saw the true face of evil, pickpocketing was sort of put in perspective.

And knowing that they are back is comforting. it's a return to normal times. I hope I make sense, well, I know some of you will understand.

Warner:

You don't know how good it makes me feel that my post helped you out (I am making the assumption that it was mine, but it really doesn't matter whose post you read, it still makes me feel great!). This bulletin board is really wonderful because it helps people have a better, safer, more enjoyable time in the city closest to heaven.

I have to agree with BookLady, the pickpockets seem quite benign compared with the terrorists, but I also have to remind you that they can steal documents which could be difficult or impossible to replace, or have serious personal or business consequences. I lost, amoung other things, some drawings I had been working on for over two weeks the first time my bag was swiped (at the big Internet Cafe near Puerta del Sol -- I never go there anymore, anyway I am on my own ADSL line now).

Have a great time, be safe, and come again!

Hi Everyone, for those of you that are going to Madrid for the first time, take good note of comments written here about pickpokets on the metro.

My friend was pickpocketed on the Metro, (the next station along from Atocha)
Again, three big fat people jumped on the train, and once we were all cramped together a young lad pickpocketed my friend.
Note that this scam can only happen if the train is packed!! This group hangs around Atocha because its the nearest Metro stop to Madrids main art gallerys.

Please be aware of this scam, it happends every day!!! If they here you speaking English, or any other language other than Spanish, and wearing backpacks then its obvious you are tourists, and they will be on to you like a shot!!!!!!!!

I feel compelled to mention, because I haven't to this point, but it seems I have once again eluded these pickpocketers and I rode the metros constantly during my 2-weeks in Madrid earlier this month.

I never felt "bumped" or "distracted" or anthing. Is my time coming? Have I just been lucky so far? I don't know. But I'm honestly surprised it hasn't happened to me yet after having read of the bad luck of so many. What's wrong with me?? Aren't I good enough? Aren't I a worthy target? Come on, ladrones!

Saludos, MadridMan

I have to say the same goes for me, Madridman. I've been ridiculously lucky, since I've never experienced even the smallest brush-up or jostle. I've been to Spain over 10 times (I'm in my mid-twenties) and only rely on the metro for transportation.

However, I do have a great story that might make you optimistic about humanity. I'm not sure how it happened, but I lost my wallet in Florence. Of course, I automatically thought it had been stolen. It was scary because I was traveling alone and had 5 Euros (enough to pay the cab that took me to my hotel in Montecatini Terme from the train station, where I discovered the wallet was missing). Well, I chalked it up to the gypsies or street urchins. Two months later, I got a letter from the U.S. Consulate in Florence. They had found my wallet and wanted me to send 3 Euros in stamps for them to send it to me. And guess what, everything was in it, when it was returned. But the story doesn't end there. One month after I received my wallet, I received a check from the U.S. Treasury for $130 dollars. The equivalent of the euros that were in my wallet when it was lost. Seems like all the hands that held wallet, from the finder, to the Carabinieri, to the Consulate workers, all had honesty as a virtue.

I honestly believe that if you trust people to do the right thing, they will. So stop being afraid of pickpockets, live your life and maybe they won't target you.

Great story!!

My friends have just returned from their first trip to Spain and they lost a wallet on their last day of the trip. They were in Madrid near the Reina Sofia Art Museum when it happened and discovered it gone when the reached the Prado. They immediately called the banks and someone had already tried to use their ATM card. Fortunately they were able to regroup and still enjoy the Prado and their last day.

They said that the warmth they felt from the people they met like Antonio and his folks at the Hostal Chelo and Stephen Drake-Jones more than made up for the one ugly incident.

Me and my family moved to a suburb of Madrid(Majadahonda) 1 month ago from Virginia. We found us an absolutly beautiful chalet for a great price. My wife was at a gardenshop(Jardiland) buying flowers for the yard and someone tried to steal our car in the parking lot. They drilled out the drivers side door lock and drilled out the ignition but could not start my American Model VW becasue it has a passive safety feature which cuts the fuel supply off(So they could not start it). The Guardia Civil were wonderful, but nothing they could realy do. I have to order a new Ignition cylinder to fit my key from Germany and it takes 6-8 weeks to manufacture. So me and my family are having to rent a car(at $300 a week) until we get our car fixed. It has left a bit of a sour taste in my mouth but I guess if I put it into context, there is not much Violent crime here(as opposed to the US) but there is a lot of Thieves here.

Having lived in a large city in the States (Philadelphia), I have to say that the crime here in Madrid is no worse. Keep in mind that Madrid is Spain´s largest city and Capital. With a population of nearly 4 million in the city alone and 7 million in the entire autonomous community (including areas such as Majadahonda and including an estimate of those who are living here unregistered...empadronado), one has to expect crime....just as in any large city.

I used to live in a residential area of Philadelphia city (near St. Joseph´s University for those who know the area) and a friend´s car was stolen from in front of my house. My car had been broken into at least 3 times in the city and one day I awoke to find a bullet hole in the trunk of my car.

Here in Madrid, my car has been broken into and rendered useless as someone used it for their hotwiring experiment and failed miserably. However, for as much as I ride public transportation...at all hours of the day and night... I have yet to be pickpocketed.

I really don´t think that blowing the crime issue out of proportion is helpful. What is helpful is knowing that if you are not accostumed to big city environments, there are a few things you can do to keep your pickpocketing risk low:

1. be aware of your surroundings, particularly if someone is standing "too close for comfort". If you are on a jam packed metro, you won´t be able to move away, but at least be more aware of your belongings.

2. Know where you are going. Avoid "looking lost". If you have to consult a map (and believe me, I have lived here for 3 years and still do), try to do so from the safety of a bar while having coffee.

3. Carry only the absolute necessary on you in forms of documentation. Don´t carry the original of your passport. Carry a photocopy. Leave the original in your hotel safebox. Use your drivers´ license or other easily replaced document for a photo id.

4. When at internet cafés and bars/restaurants, do not leave your bags on the chair next to you, on the floor, or hanging on the back of your chair. Keep them on your lap if possible. If not, situate yourself and your belongings so that it would be next to impossible for someone to casually walk by and grab your bag.

5. Use your common sense. If you are uncomfortable with an area, avoid it. Stick to large well-lit streets at night if you aren´t familiar with the area. Stick to where there are crowds or populated streets.

6. Lastly, be aware but not paranoid. Nothing can ruin a trip faster than constantly being afraid of being robbed.

Violent crime risk here is very very low compared to the US.

Come and enjoy yourselves!

"Violent crime risk here is very very low compared to the US."

It will take 10 or 15 years more for Spain to get a crime level like that in the US. The several millions of nonSpaniards living in Spain (moroccoans, ecuatorians, columbians, romanians, and so on) will take care of that. Thanks to one of the most stupid "invents" nowadays: multiculturalism. 90% of delinquents, thieves, rapers,... in Spain are NON-ETHNIC-SPANIARDS.

Are you confusing immigration with multiculturalism? These are two different concepts.

I am interested to find out where you got your data that 90% of evildoers are immigrants? Certainly not from the Spanish government. Or at least it is not in the data they send to Interpol.

Although I haven't been to Spain yet, I have to believe that crime is far worse here in the U.S.

A friend of mine just got back to the U.S. from Europe and he said right when he got off of the airport here, he could feel the tension. You don't notice it when you are here all the time, but to hear him tell it, it is there and far worse than almost any place in Western Europe.

My guess would be that if you grew up in any major city in the U.S. and weren't completely sheltered, you should be aptly prepared to handle any potential pickpocketers.

I think that all the great advice given here applies almost anywhere in the world. Be smart and don't stick out like a sore thumb, I guess.

Imajica writes: Violent crime may be worse in U.S. cities but pickpockets and petty thievery in places like Barcelona and Rome may make you change your mind. Keep that good thought! I was born and raised in NYC and I had never encountered pickpockets with the finesse of those you may find in Barcelona. I have seen 'snatch & grab' thieves in action on MetroMadrid like I never saw on the NY Subways.

In Spain, Pickpockets follow the crowds, whether they be Pilgrims in Santiago de Compostela, the SanFermines in Pamplona.

Good luck!

I live and work in Madrid, and always "Field Strip" my wallett prior to going downtown or rideing the Metro. The pickpockets here are so good, that they can distract you, unbutton or unvelcro a pocket and be gone with your wallett before you even notice. A friend of mine just had his wallett lifted at the Princi-Pio train station the other week, never seen it comin. Best advice.....take only a credit card, ID and some cash with you downtown, at least you won't lose everything if you get "Picked".

I consider myself a 'seasoned' traveler in Madrid(been there 4 times before) but when I traveled with my disabled husband I was very disappointed in our experience.
The cab from the airport ripped us off, handing us what looked like an 'official' form, just like they give you in NYC, when we got in. Except this one was totally fake and they charged us 80 Euros set fee.
In the Puerta del Sol, someone tried to pick pocket my back pack but a man warned me. Yes, yes, I know I shouldn't have been carrying it, but dealing with my husband and all that stuff didn't leave me with any choices.
Then, this is the worse, someone knocked over my husband and several men rushed to "help" pick him up. By this time I was savvy enough to push them all aside, get him up and jump in a cab.
But it was sad to me that the city of Madrid does not do more to protect travellers as well as their own citizens. I'd love to write to them: Any one know how to do this?

How does one "field strip" their wallet?

This may be a stupid question, but I know everyone speaks of carrying photo identification on them. Why is that? I know the only reason I ever worry about having photo ID on me in the states is for driving or going out to a bar. Is it needed for something else in Spain?

Using your credit cards, at shops, for instance.

I would assume that the poster who mentioned "field stripping" the wallet referred to carrying just the basics. That would mean no more money than you are willing to lose, only one credit card if you think you are going to buy something, only taking your ATM card with you on those occasions where you expect to need to use it, and a basic photo id. Remember, I believe you are required to be able to present positive photo id if requested to do so by the police. Also, it is not uncommon to have to present photo id when using a credit card in Spain. The store clerk will ask for your DNI (Documento Nacional de Identidad or National ID card) but they have accepted my U.S. passport or drivers license. Don't know if they will accept a photocopy of a passport.