I think that the adage "the squeaky wheel gets the oil" applies in this situation.

When people don´t like something, they complain and complain vociferously. Since they are the ones who complain, everyone sits up and takes notice. However, when they are happy... they are happy as a clam...clammed up and quiet. No one notices their happiness because they don´t "complain" or "warn" about it.

People who experience a bit of crime in Madrid hasten to post "crime-ridden, fear filled posts" on all sorts of message boards. However, the people who dodn´t experience any problems don´t say anything about their "crime free" experience.

I am one of the guilty. I live here in Madrid and have never experienced any bout of petty or otherwise crime. Nor do I hasten to the message boards to proclaim my happiness of a crime-free life.

I think these warnings, while helpful, should be taken with a grain of salt. When you go on vacation leave your stress at home but by all means take your common sense with you!

Ahhhhhhhh... (deep, cleansing sigh of relief) I'm SO happy and SO relieved to read the above, recent postings. You're SO right, Chica, Wolf, thijs, & Amanda Panda.

Saludos, MadridMan
Happy Father's Day, Dads-of-the-USA!

I love your site for all of the information. Now I want to give my opinion about the crime (I hope with not too much English mistakes!) My daughter studies since 5 month in Madrid and she is happy to come home in 5 weeks - the first time by all of her staying abroad. She likes the city, the spanish peoples and friends – but she has a lot of problems with the crime in Madrid. She also lived alone for longer times in USA, Australia. She don’t do and look like a ‘tourist’ and she has no problems with the Spanish language. We know that crime is everywhere but she never felt so much unsaved like in Madrid! Nearly every second person of the Spanish and foreign students and friends was mugged or pickpocketed in Madrid. 3 weeks ago her mobilphone was stolen in the underground and the answer by the police, her friends her hostfamily was: “nothing more? no attack? You had a lot of luck – forget it it’s ‘normal’ here”. She is very afraid by the lot of body attacks. Within 5 months she saw nearly daily attacks – often by children - in underground, shops etc.
We visited her for some days and we could see at night drunken young peoples damaging parking cars at Gran Via – and no reaction or calling the police by the other peoples.

Someone wrote: "Madrid is a really safe city. Much more than other cities, with the statistics on your hand". Maybe with the statistics Madrid is a safed city because only a small percentage goes to police if they need a confirmation for the insurance or if they are hurted.

I don’t think it will be much better in the future. We went by train outside of Madríd and saw the much new satellite towns along the track they are building now. That will be the best places for more crime and social problems!

Crime, unfortunately, does happen just about everywhere you go. We know it’s only a small percentage of bad peoples here but it seems the other have resigned and think it’s ‘normal’ – it’s for me a tragedy.

Hallo momy!

It is a shame to have crime, but what it seem to me more embarrasing as a citizen of Madrid is that it reaches the point were someone thinks it is normal. Being mugged or pickpocketed should never be normal!!!

My recommendation is that anyone who gets stolen should denounce it at the nearest police station, no matter what the policmen says. They are there to serve us and to handle these unfortunately situations.

Fernando

I forgot to say: The reason for writing my message is because all the other messages before are playing down the crime situation - special in the central area. Befor my daughter went to Madrid she got a lot of informations by this good websites. Possibly it helps other visitors to be more prepared and to be much more careful.

momy:
"Within 3 months she saw nearly daily attacks – often by children - in underground, shops etc."

Say thank you to MOROCCOANS, ROMANIANS and certain southamericans.

Hey, even these foreign gangs of minors have names like "la banda del pegamento" or "Latin Kings". They are famous now.

If you knew how safe Madrid was just 3 or 4 years ago... If you knew how good madrileños and tourists used to live before this massive immigration came to Spain (with this massive immigration has come the rise in crime, pickpocketing and delinquency, no one can´t deny it, there is no doubt about it except for the PC gang). I´m sure that there are some posters here that have visited Madrid in the last 5 years. I´m sure they can tell the difference.

The immigrants will ruin the country and the tourism. Wait for some years and you will see it...Yesterday a Pakistani raped a madrileña in Valencia:

http://www.lasprovincias.es/valencia/edi...-03A25VA10.html

Last week, 2 moroccoans raped a 62 yeard old Spanish woman in Alicante. Well, these moroccoans also hit a Spanish peasant (he was severily injured), stole him, and burnt 2 cars in the same day.

We can´t forget that 3 weeks ago when 2 moroccoans minors killed a greek tourist either.

And in this week there is a moldavian immigrant being judged in Madrid because 2 years ago he killed a Spanish man, almost killed his wife, and almost raped their 2 daughters when he got into their house with the intention of stealing.

I have edited the message today because I´ve just seen in the newspaper that an ecuatorian has tried to rape a Spanish woman.

http://www.lasprovincias.es/valencia/edicion/prensa/noticias/Sucesos/200306/2 6/VAL-02C26VA09.html

And the list goes on. I understand why tourists are upset. Hey, but Spaniards are even more upset.

For the Spaniards on this board: when are you going to realize what is going on in relation with immigration in Spain?. Are you also aware that We Spaniards will be a MINORITY in our own country during the XXI century?. You don´t mind, do you?.

For the tourists: enjoy Spain while it is still Spanish. In 20 or 30 years Spain will be a coctel of moroccoan-ecuatorian-dominican-columbian "pseudo-Spanish" country. Half of the children that have been born in the biggest hospitals in Madrid are ecuatorian-moroccoans. When 40% or 50% of the population of Spain will be ecuatorian-moroccoans descendants say bye to the real Spanish Spain.

There will always be immigration from poorer countries to richer countries - and at least at the moment Europe looks like a financial paradise for many Mahgrebs. However, I am sure most of the immigrants would like to stay and work in their homecountries, if they could, and not spend their days doing nothing / robbing in Madrid. I am also convinced most Mahgrebs are nice, although they have a different culture.

Having said this, I do agree that uncontrolled immigration and the non-integration of immigrants are serious threats our society. Many of the (Maghreb) immigrant live in "ghettos", some have an unacceptable view on women, some of them are violent, some spend the day robbing - maybe because that might be their only way to get money. I do feel there should be more open discussions about these problems, and I also believe it is possible to discuss them without racism.

And finally, coming back to the original subject - safety in Madrid, I have to say myself that I have only seen one robbery in Spain (in the metro an elderly man was robbed by two men - not maghrebs!) but on the other hand I have almost always been with a group of Spanish friends, who know their way, and mostly in relatively safe areas.

I don't think there is reason to be paranoid, but then again, it is always good be careful, especially in the beginning before knowing your way.

K

“I am also convinced most Mahgrebs are nice, although they have a different culture”.

That’s absolutely true. We educated our children: All over the world are living beautiful peoples – if they white, black, yellow, … if they Christian, Moslem, …. if they are rich or poor. Only the person himself and his character is decisive!!

“…. most of the immigrants would like to stay and work in their homecountries, if they could, and not spend their days doing nothing / robbing..”

A big part of the immigrants come for work and for better life. They are living with us and they respect the rules of their new homecountries. They are welcome and everybody in the world should have the possibility to live where he/she wants. The big problem are the other - often illegal - immigrants. They come for robbing. They don’t want to work and don’t respect the law. No immigrant in Europe has to go robbing because of being hungry, has no bed or no medicin! Sometimes residents are living in much more poverty than immigrants. And for these peoples our governments and also we residents are not prepared and uncompromising enough. Our laws are to lenient and our prisons are often more comfortable than their home. And we are to white-livered and to lazy to oppose. If someone needs help – why just I? I’m busy, it could make troubles ….. There are other peoples, they can help. And finaly nothing happens.

WE are the state, that are our rules of living together and if everybody opens his eyes and ears and helps (and if it is only a call for the police) and we hold together – all these ‘bad’ peoples wouldn’t have the power they have got.

The most of the peoples on this message board are young and open-minded. Don’t close your eyes and ears, talk about with your friends, with everybody you know. Speak to peoples when they do nothing, ask why. There is a chance they will help the next time. We must not allow that a minority disposes of our life! All problems can’t be solved by that but it is a great success if one of them is reduced.

I hope I found the right (english-)words in sense and grammar. But I have all this at heart because moral courage concers to everybody.
momy

hello everybody

kate p

without expressing racist-ideology based ideas

you mentioned that these morrocan criminals steal all day because thats possibly there only way to earn some money.true...but what that dont justify they murders while breaking into homes to steal.
yes its true they murder and act abnormally agressive while "making their living.erts newspaper links express this.

again this is not at all a racist statement its reality.

i think we could have immigrants but with a limit.
not like all these over generous european goverments are doing recieving anybody like that.

spaniards could be criminals more or less just like any other ethnic group but these immigrants are to a great extenct criminals.

i also dont want spain and other euro countries to be native white population minorities.no senor

serious **** aint it.
for tourist and spaniards.

I recently read an article on www.LewRockwell.com (unfortunately I cannot find it; there are new articles posted every day) which mentioned that in 30-50 years, Europe will be 50% Arab/Magreb populated due to the exponential growth of immigration and birth-rate and steady declining native European birth rate.

This is quite disconcerting. Somehow I think Europeans will hold out.

And no I have no underlying racially biased attitudes I'm trying to espouse here.