Well, also Spanish gipsies comit a lot of pickpocketing. It´s a well-known fact that most of the pickpocketing, robberies, assaults in the streets,... in Spain are done by foreigners, specially Northafricans, Romanians and Colombians.

5 years ago We rarely had assaults in the streets, robberies in houses, assaults in the streets, violence, ... they were quite rare in the news. Even when We had these kind of situations the assaultants (in many cases drugadicts or gipsies) usually were polite and just asked if you could lend him some money.

Now with the comming of immigrants nothing is the same and there are certain neighborhoods in the bigger cities (Madrid, Barcelona, Valencia, Sevilla, ...) were you should be careful. Many Spaniards suffer from this new wave of violence that the immigrants have brought to us (although others call it "diversity" and "cultural enrichment"...) and many tourist suffer from it also.

I just want to point it out. It´s also the same in other Western European countries. In England, France, Germany, Holland, Belgium, Italy and most European countries) most of the delinquency and crimes are commited by immigrants. Some friends of mine have recently been mugged in France and Holland. Guess who where the assaultants...?. Moroccoans (like almost always)!.

Yesterday I´ve read a piece of news where CIU (the party that governs in Cataluña) said that the "immigrants were the ones that have caused the bad situation of convivence, delinquency and bad feelings in El Raval in Barcelona". That is just an example of what is happening.

This is just a piece of news of something that happened yesterday in Almeria and that is very usual lately thanks to the Moroccoans. 8 Moroccoans kidnapped a Spanish woman and raped her many times...

http://www.andalucia24horas.com/texto.asp?id=142034&sec=71

Detenidos ocho marroquíes en El Ejido por secuestrar y agredir sexualmente en varias ocasiones a un joven

La Guardia Civil de Almería ha detenido a ocho ciudadanos de nacionalidad marroquí, de entre 19 y 37 años, como presuntos autores del secuestro y la violación en repetidas ocasiones de una joven de 35 años en la localidad de El Ejido (Almería), informó el lunes la Benemérita.

Las detenciones se produjeron en la tarde del pasado día 4 y a lo largo del día 5 de abril en el paraje Tierras de Almería del citado municipio, tras la denuncia presentada por la mujer, el día 27 de marzo, en la que relataba que había sido secuestrada y agredida sexualmente "en repetidas ocasiones por varias personas".

Según fuentes del Instituto Armado, la joven salió de un club acompañada por un hombre, A.A. de 31 años, quien se ofreció a llevarla hasta su casa. Sin embargo, contra su voluntad, fue trasladada hasta un cortijo en Tierras de Almería donde permaneció varios días siendo víctima de los presuntos delincuentes.

Los marroquíes han sido detenidos por los delitos de agresión sexual, robo con violencia --le quitaron la documentación y el dinero-- y detención ilegal.

...........................

I think this Spanish woman must be very happy with the cultural enrichment and diverstiy that many Spaniards are prommoting everyday... There are Spaniards that promote diversity and multiculturalism from their luxury neighborhoods while there are many Spaniards that suffer what the others are prommoting everyday. That poor woman is not the unique that have suffered from this. There are tons of Spaniards and tourists that have been assaulted, robbed, raped and even killed by immigrants in Spain. Diversity!.

And...

I just want to say that when i was in Spain last summer i was robbed by a man with a knife who wnated to open my chest. Fortunaly i was not injured , but i lost 100 euros and almost my life.
The point is that man was a SPANIARD.

I was also pickpocked in Madrid by another SPANIARD.
And finally was another time pickpocked in a train in France by a FRENCH.
So, if i use your arguments, should i be racist on spaniards anf frenchs?
guess what, no!!

Always the same answers... Every summer there are many young Englishmen and Dutchmen that are arrested in Mallorca because they distribute drugs. All countries have their own share of national delinquents. Even in Sweden there are Swedish men that can attack you but the difference is:

1. 1 Swedish men out of 100 is a delinquent while (which makes it very rare) 25 out of 100 Moroccoans are delinquents (which makes it quite usual that a Moroccoan can assalt you in the streets).

2. Each country has his own nationals that are delinquents (even Sweden has his share of Swedish delinquents) but Morocco exports tons of delinquents to other countries and ruins the neighbourhoods and towns where they live and the tourism in those countries.

janlo: I hardly doubt that an ethnic Spaniard or French assaulted you in the streets, I can´t believe it (probably if they were Spaniards they were drugadicts) or probably you can´t differenciate a Southamerican from a Spaniard or from a French or probably they were Spanish or French gipsies). I have never been assaulted by a Spaniard in my life, neither I nor any of my friends. I´ve been assaulted many times by gipsies and I have been asked for money 2 or 3 times by drugadicts. You are not Spaniards so you DON´t understand the gipsy and Moroccoan problem in Spain. It comes from centuries. Or janlo, should I start to talk the way many Native Americans behave in Canada?.

Come on, call me "racist" again, if that is what you like. I´m just a normal person TIRED of all the delinquency that immigrants have brought to Spain. I´m just realist and I want the best for my country.

If I was really a "racist" I shoud have something against Chinese people or Argentinian people and that is not the case. Chinese people as a colective have showed in Spain that they are pretty civilized people and are pretty welcomed in Spain as immigrants and I have absolutely nothing against them.

I do not understand your posts ERT. Are you just venting? Do you want to start another Reconquista? Criminality is usually (always?) linked to POVERTY not RACE.

I don't really want to get in the middle of this issue, but I have a question to ask because I'm a bit confused about what people really seem to believe regarding this issue.

If the majority of crimes against person, like pickpockets, and muggings are conducted by immigrants, and if we suggest it's because they are poor, why are these people allowed into Spain if they aren't going to be an active part of their society and work for a living? The test of living there should obviously be gainful employment.

Obviously, if allowing illegal aliens to remain free on their own recognizance isn't working, then it's up to the Spanish government to create speedy trials, and make these criminals pay for their crimes. If the ruling of the court is that they have violated their agreement for being there, they should be deported immediately upon serving their time.

If a person refuses to name their nation of origin, after commission of a crime, and being convicted, they obviously don't deserve to remain free on Spanish soil, and should be incarcerated until such time as they admit to their origin, and be deported upon that admission.

It seems like the biggest problem the Spanish government has with creating a safer environment is the fact that the law isn't geared up to "dissuade" these people from being criminals. It might be time for the people to demand stiffer penalties, and immediate action.

Wolf

The majority of the crimes are commited by forgeiners in Spain, followed by gypsies. 80% of the people jailed are inmigrants.

From there we can't conclude "all the inmigrants are criminals" or "all gypsies are criminals".

It is obvious that the people with less resources will tend with more probability to be criminals. It is both a cultural issue (cultures that give less value to life or crime than others) and an economical one.

I really don't see the connection with racism...

Fernando

Fernando,

Based on those figures (80%), can't the Spanish authorities deport these people? If they are criminals, there's really no reason to keep them in Spain from what I see, regardless of race.

If they are Americans, or whatever, send them packing. They should live within Spanish law if they want to stay there.

I suppose it gets to a question of civil rights, but I wonder why our nations keep granting rights to people who aren't even legally within our borders.

Wolf

Fernando and Wolf,
I just visited the INTERPOL site,which has the national crime statistics for every country,and according to their data in Spain in 2001, 26.72% of the total crimes were committed by aliens(extranjeros). I am not sure where you got your stats Fernando, but I am interested in seeing that information, they may reflect another measure.

Interpol provides: Click here to be taken to the pdf file with the 2001 statistics

However you can visit www.Interpol.int to get other crime data! Excellent source of crime statistics.
From your friendly librarian,

I've not sayed that 80% of the criminals are inmigrants, but that 80% of the persons who are jailed are inmigrants.

I've tried to access an official source but it was unavailable. Instead, you may read this article in El Mundo , which states that 90% of the people jailed in May of 2002 were inmigrants.

Anyway the Interpol statistics surprise me. That is not the perception I had, but I guess I was wrong. We must also consider that inmigrants are far less than 25% of the population. As I have sayed in the other message, it is normal that the crime rate is higher between inmigrants, because they have less resources in general.

Wolf: According to spanish laws (as far as I know), a criminal inmigrant first has to fullfill his penalty, and then is deported. I have heard that this is going to change, because some inmigrants commited small crimes in order to stay here longer.

Fernando