I don't want to alarm any of the jittery readers on the board, and things will have died down tomorrow, but the police are baton charging us here in Madrid right now and shooting rubber bullets. All the way down the Castellana towards Colon to Neptuno and into Sol, protestors, who earlier demonstated outside the US embassy, are being dispersed by riot police. Fires have been set in the streets around Sol. More soon...

Hi barry. Sorry to hear about this. After reading your message I went to El-Mundo newspaper to get the story - interesting (or maybe not so surprising) that www.ABC.es didn't cover it. See photos of the article below and read the complete article HERE :









Nuevos incidentes entre policía y manifestantes en Madrid
MARIO GUTIERREZ

MADRID.- El jueves fue el centro de Madrid; ayer, la principal arteria de la capital, el Paseo de la Castellana. Miles de personas bloquearon el tráfico desde la embajada de EEUU, en la calle Serrano, hasta el Congreso de los Diputados. Allí, la Policía Nacional ha cargado contra algunos manifestantes.

El resto, unos 2.000, se dispersaron por el centro de la capital. Las cargas también tuvieron lugar ante la sede del PP y en la Puerta del Sol.

Los incidentes en el centro de Madrid continuaban pasada la medianoche. Unas 500 personas se reagruparon a esa hora en la Puerta del Sol. Los antidisturbios cortaron al tráfico la calle Carretas y cargaron contra los manifestantes hacia la calle Jacinto Benavente.

La protesta comenzó a las 20.00 horas ante la embajada de Estados Unidos, en la calle Serrano. Entre gritos de "Asesinos", "Guerra, no" y "Gobierno dimisión", los manifestantes, convocados por el Foro Social de Madrid, protagonizaron una "pitada" frente al fuerte cordón policial. (read more HERE )

---
Saludos y Paz, MadridMan

Hmmmm...so any advice for two Americans who have a trip planned for May? Anyone have comments on the mood of the people...are protesters really mad at Bush, the American people, or both?

Ty 'n Ed, I'd just stay clear from the demonstrations although they don't seem to be angry at people walking by, "American-Looking" or not. These demonstrations are (almost) never violent - it's the police that are trying to disperse them that are creating the majority of the aggression. You'll be fine but as I say, it's probably best to avoid the demonstrations. But, I have a strong feeling there won't be any more anti-war demonstrations while you're there in May as there's an excellent chance it'll all be over within a week from now.

Saludos, MadridMan

I should be in Madrid sometime during the summer, so I hope that the anti-war protests don't grow into hatered toward all Americans.I am against war, but I don't want to spend all my time in Madrid talking about Iraq.

As for the newsreports, it is strange that ABC didn't report the protests. If I remember correctly, the ABC main building is near the protest area. ABC is considered a very traditional newspaper, but it is still odd that they failed to report the marchs. Even La Razón, which has come out in support of the war, published a small article about the protests. It is a good thing that I read more than one Spanish newspaper.

Hoping for peace in the Middle East,

Shawn

There is an article on ABC's web site now about the protests.

As far as I can tell, the police are basically doing their job. If the demonstrations are transforming from authorized rallies into campaigns of civil disobedience (blocking traffic, vandalism, etc.), the police have to enforce the law. Chances are, since almost 90 percent of the Spanish population is opposed to military intervention in Iraq, the cop on the street feels the same way as the protestors, but has his/her job to do.

From what I've seen, the anti-American sentiment is at an abstract, political level, and there have been no reports of personal animosity against individual Americans. Passions are high though, so it's smart to keep checking on what's happening.

Has anyone consider the fact that of the 4,000,000 citizens of Madrid 2,500 are violently rioting???

As I have said, I support this war to a point. People have the right to protest against it as long as they do it peacefully, no matter that some radicals use the situation to provoke policemen and destroy public and private property. What an irony that those radical "pacifists" are complaining about the war!

Fernando

Unfortunately, the best way to fight against this war will happen after the fact: in November 2004 in the U.S. (assuming an honest election next time!) and whenever the next elecciones happen in Spain. Hopefully, those who oppose this war will show the people behind it what regime change is all about.

What makes you think they're pacifists? They're opposing a war they consider unjust and illegal. What has that to do with radical pacifism?

When a small sector of a protest start to burn urban furniture, throw stones to the policemen and destroying whatever they find in their way, under my point of view they are radicals, and should be prosecuted by police.

When there is a group of people who is complaining in the streets against a war, I call them pacifists.

Perhaps you have another point of view...

Fernando

A pacifist, as I understand it, is someone who opposes all wars. Quakers, for example, are generally pacificists.

Someone who opposes a specific war but not all wars is not a pacifist: they're just a person of conscience speaking out against what they consider an injustice.

The media have covered a number of highly confrontational protests over the past couple of days, both here in the United States and abroad. I just want to point out that some demonstrations (probably most demonstrations!) are entirely peaceful. I've been to a large one here in Minnesota, and found that there were many "pacifists," as defined above, along with many people who believe that THIS WAR is wrong, but that wars are sometimes justified. The major criticisms I heard were that (1) "preemptive war" is never right and that (2) the inspections were working and should have been given more time. One of the things I did NOT hear expressed was hatred of our country--the people I encountered love America but disagree with/fear/distrust our current administration.

These protests are a beautiful thing when they remain peaceful.

Why don't anybody ever protest despotism and violations against human rights? It's a rhetorical question, since I know the answer. Just thought I'd stir the pot. I guess I'll go out and protest next time we elect a Democratic president.

Well Gazpacho, in free democracies you can complain and demonstrate because democracies uphold certain universal rights. But not in places where despots and tyrants rule. For example take Cuba, there Fidel Castro has just jailed as counter revolutionaries cuban dissidents that dared to speak with American counselate officials recently. God knows what he will do to them.

"Pacifist". "Radical". "Protestor". These are all relative terms. Depending on one's perspective. The world is deeply divided. We all have strong feelings. After 9/11 Americans have been afraid. 70% of Americans support Bush in this activity. Americans don't like war, but America was unjustly attacked on 9/11. They feel that something must be done to eradicate terrorism and those who pose a threat for future terrorist actions. I am afraid that this conflict in Iraq is only the beginning. I am deeply sad that Bin Laden's attack on America has opened such a horrible state of affairs in American foreign policy. Again, I am afaid that this is only the beginning. I pray that this war will end soon. I hope you will all pray with me.

Booklady, I know why people can't demonstrate in their own countries against despotism and human rights violations, kind of in the definition. Why don't people in free countries demonstrate against them in other countries. It certainly bothers me that these things exist anywhere in the world.
In reality, these protest aren't against the war, but rather, against the current conservative administration. For example, where were the protest against intervening in Yugoslavia, Somalia or Sudan? Can't wait to hear the explanation, and I'm sure lots of people have them.
By the way, I enjoy many of your post.

I know it's a rhetorical question, but such protests happen often, especially when representatives of despotic foreign regimes visit democratic countries.

All very thoughtful remarks. I wish I could support this war now that it's apparent that it will go on - but I can't. I seriously doubt the Bush administration's ethical reasoning on this matter. I think the rest of the world does, too. Hence the protests against this action. Even if the administration's ethical reasoning is really good and pure - sometimes perception is stronger than reality. And to ignore that will only work to our disadvantage in the long run. A short victory, while desirable to most every American, may be just that - short. I can only hope for the best!

I haven't heard of, or seen any agression towards US citizens ("American" remember, includes citizens of all countries of North, Central and South America!), just the usual spirited verbal debates. I eat every day at a Doner Kebap Kurdish café in Lavapies (across from the Anton Martín Metro stop, the best food in Madrid!) where about half the clientelle is Muslim, and no one has harassed me for being from the US. Of course I am vocally against the war, and the so-called "President" and his gang of thugs, but I have not heard anyone be upset with the people of the US, just the government. If anyone has reason to hate the US, it would be the Kurds, whom we threw to Sadaam after inciting them to rebel, and are apparently cutting them out of post-war participation in the government this time. Talk about shameful.

Martín de Madrid,
President,
1st Class Pinups
"The Classical Alternative in Pinup Art"
http://www.1stclasspinups.com

In the afternoon on March 11, my wife and I were walking down the Carrera de San Jeronimo, when a group of young men and women came racing across the from the Plaza Puerta Del Sol and started an anti-war demonstration front of the Comunidad de Madrid building. My wife and I were caught in the middle. We were not threatened by anyone, and I do not look Spanish. We moved our way through the crowd, and watched from a distance. I did not feel threatened by anyone who participated in the demonstration