Just to say it once more. Tourist must be very careful with pickpockets. I had to warn this Friday in Sol to two tourist that this group of gipsie women were trying to stole the purse. I think they didn't even realize that I was crying them, although they saved their purse this time because they looked at me, and they move the bag. But it's incredible how naïve some tourist are, this two were eating a goffre with so much interest that they forgot their bag on the back which was going to be open. I don't know if people feel so safe that forget about the purse of what, but I always take my wallet on my front pocket and the money in the small one, and only take the amount of money that I think I'll need. And when I take a bag in the metro I take it always in front o me and very well closed.
This group of gipsie women is very easy to identify because they go always 3 or 4 women catched by the arms, they're always around Sol picking wallets .

Miguelito,

Does the Madrid police use sting operations to catch these people in the act, using undercover police? It would seen that might cut down the number of attempts, and put a few of them in jail.

It's nice to hear how you helped them. That was very considerate of you.

Wolf

It seems that the problem is that the laws are to soft. Policemen take this pickpocketers, they are judged but, as the crime is what is called "hurto" (stealing) and not "robo" (robbery, or stealing great amounts of money) they release them with no jail penalties or just with a small monetary sanction.

My question is: what is the government waiting for to put an end to this situation? It is gravely damaging tourism in big spanish cities as well as our reputation and image

Most of the times the thieves are inmigrants. An effort should be made to expatriate ilegal ones, because if they don't have a legal job it is logic that they would have to steal to live...

Fernando

Fernando has told you, the problem is with the laws, police can't do anything. Probably the solution would be to punish the people who makes many small crimes instead of punish an isolated small crime, because they're always the same people. I think they're studying it. But meanwhile we have to go very alert!!

Miguelito, they can't do that, then they'd be doing racial profiling and that would only make things worse! However...

They do need to do something besides just study the law! I know of a couple of immigrants that were actually involved in dealing drugs, were already in violation of their visas (they were there as students originally, but had long since abandoned their studies) had their papers taken away from them after being caught in a deal and that was the worst they went through. Eventually they hired lawyers to resolve their legal situation, and are now living in Spain legally, but not working mind you, they are cashing in on Paro and who knows what else?!? When an immigrant breaks a law (especially if their illegal)they shouldn't be given more chances to repeat their crimes, they should be sent back to their country. Its my understanding that their country has to pay for it, yes? If not, let's work on that! :p But it seems that Spain needs to make harsher laws on this and other crimes, even for spanish nationals for vandelism and other such things-who cares if its a kid, have him wake up at the crack of dawn every weekend for 6 months and have him/her do community service cleaning up the mess that gets made on the weekends. THEN see how the kid thinks twice and how the family gets involved in what the kid is doing when their sleep gets interrupted when their little spawn of satan gets picked up!

And of course, tourists need to be careful. Then they'll say because they got robbed they don't like a particular city or country- which is ridiculous, since it can happen to anybody, anywhere! Pickpockets are harder to deal with, so you have to be vigilant, but as for people begging etc. I've found the best way to deal with them is to look them straight in the face and say NO! and keep walking- they'll move onto someone else. And if someone trys to stop you and ask you something you don't understand... don't stop and play charades with them, say sorry,you don't understand (Lo siento, no entiendo) and KEEP WALKING!!!!! Best way not to be a victim is to be aware!

I can see what you're all talking about. Espe, I like your idea of public service, and automatic deportation of anyone convicted of a crime. If a person doesn't appear in court on the date they are supposed to, they could be tried in absentia, and when picked up for any reason, automatically deported, or in the case of a citizen, put in jail if they failed to meet the requirements of the courts.

It is a problem for tourists. If you lose all your important documents, as well as VISA and ATM cards, you could be in deep trouble. How do you continue your trip? For that matter, how do you even get home in some cases?

It is an issue everywhere. I guess the problem that we all have to face is that pickpockets may very well pose a physical danger as well. If you catch them in the act, who's to say that they wouldn't attack you with a knife, or any other means at their disposal? It isn't too hard to believe that it's a small step from picking a person's pocket to holding them up at the point of a knife.

I know it's something that always concerns me everywhere I go. Having had my pocket picked in the Madrid Metro, I am very careful to make sure it can't happen again. I just hate the idea of always having to be concerned about it, and knowing there's so little that can be done about it.

But, we always have to remember that it isn't a problem that's just associated with Madrid, or Spain. Pickpockets operate almost everywhere in the world.

Wolf

Sorry, Espe, I think you didn't understand me well, the law I was talking about, was for everybody, Spanish included, although maybe it'll be harder for inmigrants. I think that stealing a wallet with 100$ is not such a crime to go to jail, because jail make you more criminal and so on, but maybe if you steal 5 wallets you should go...
About the implication of inmigrants in crimes I'm not sure if it's as high as they say. When they talk about crime statistics they include people catched with no papers, which is the most frequent 'crime'. It's true that there are a lot of mafias that commit crimes against their own countrymen, but this is something more grave and different from the small crimes of pickpocketting we're talking about.
Again, about the gap between pickpocketting and violence, I think it's bigger than Wolf thinks, as the law is much harder against this type of crimes in Spain, and usually pickpockets are too coward to have a direct confrontation with the victim.

no one likes having to be constantly on guard but it's a fact of life...especially on the road and when you're carrying everything of importance on you...
but attitude means everything...pickpockets prey on the weak, and inattentive...
rule #1...pay attention!
rule #2...watch your back or watch your travel companions back and have them watch yours...
rule #3...when they swarm you...start swinging...
rule #4...especially when travelling solo...keep your wits about you...the only time i was almost picked was returning to my room alone after a late night out in amsterdam...luckily i wasn't that out of it...so even though he thought he had "easy pickins" lined up, it wasn't to be...and i bet he was sore the next day...

I have provided the police with a full decription og the 4 girls who are pickpocketing in sol and they do nothing. It is so frustating and I just want to punch them right in their grinning faces.
Unfortunatly they probably have a family who are also on the wrong side of the law. So for now this is not a solution. How about a picture gallery of her on this site?

How about reversing the whole thing?!

Get a group of people together, obviously different shifts as people have lives... and stake out the pickpockets the way the pickpockets do regular people. When you see them about to do something, well, you just kind of stalk them they way they do their victim. They are bound to notice, and so is the would be victim and the more they get harassed, maybe it'll make it less appealing for them to rob people... I love the bubble I live in in my head! I know, its not realistic.. but can you imagine!?

I know its going to be a part of life, but only if we could keep it to a minimum! There's got to be a way.

Miguelito, 5 times.. well I like the 3 strikes you're out better. I agree that lesser crimes considering that it is something that can be deterred more easily, should be treated differently but let's not let them get carried away either! Community service for vandels and how about lessons in humility for thieves. Let them stand in the middle of Sol with a sign around their neck, I am a thief! Done military style, have them stand for a few hours (time directly related to offense) maybe holding some buckets of water in each arm with their arms out to their sides! :p Shame them into doing (hopefully)something productful with their lives!

Sorry, but for the money that they steal, someone has worked the hard, and honest way for that, its not theirs to enjoy! The victim may not get their money back, but give them some justice!