Terrorism in Spain?

Hello, I've been off this board for a while due to world events. I happened to miss the WTC attacks by a day. I was in NYC and in and ON top of the WTC through the 10th (last flight out of JFK Monday night). THerefore, waking up the next morning in Los Angeles, knowing I had just been there was quite disturbing. Therefore, I'm a little apprehensive about travel. Nevertheless, I'm still planning to move to Spain, hopefully now by Spring 2001.

However, I've been hearing rumors about terrorism in Spain. Other than the ETA Basque bombing in Madrid recently is there any truth to the terrorism rumors?

Is any ex-patriots concerned, in general, about their well-being in Spain? Does anyone know about any terrorism in Barcelona as that is where I'll be primarily.

Thanks! EDR

There are "only" three terrorist groups active in Spain.

The first one is ETA, which killed two basque polices just last friday. They official purpose for killing is achieving independence for the Basque Country.

The second one is GRAPO, an ultracommunist terrorist band whose purpose for killing is the destruction of the estate and the instauration of a socialist-marxist nation. They are almost dispersed and it has been years since their last killing/kidnapping.

The third group, and the newest, is the Al-Qaida/Bin Laden's group. They have not commited any action here, but the police have already jailed 30 of their members. Some of them implicated in the attacks of the 11th of September.

To answer your fears concerning this terrorists I would say that you have nothing to be afraid of. The attacks are never directed to tourists (in the case of the first two groups this will low their international support/comprehension).

Regards.

Fernando

Of course there has been no violent al-Queda activity in Spain. Why would they wish to upset such an accomidating place? After all eight men who have not been "implicated" but EXPLICITLY IDENTIFIED AS CO-CONSPIRITORS in the 9/11 campaign will not be extradited to the US by Spain. These are the guys who were sipping sangrias with Mohammed Atta near Barcelona in July '01 while putting the final touches on their plan of attack. Spain seems to have a problem with the possibility of the US stringing these murderous criminals by the neck.

If there are any al-Queda members reading this board, I reccommend that you move to Spain immediately while continuing to plot new murders against helpless civilians. The Spanish authorities will be most gracious hosts while you plan your crimes.

I don't agree with you Kurt. I don't want to defend the non-extradition of this terrorists but I will explain why this could happen (though I don't really know if this is the case).

First, if they have commited crimes in Spain, they have to comply with our laws, what means that they have to be jailed for some time. They have not kill anyone here, but they have commited some "minor" crimes (such as gathering as a terrorist band, holding weapons ilegally,...).

Then they could be extraditated to any country who ask for it. But if I remember well, when the country to which they should be extraditated have the death penalty, there are cases in which they can't be extraditated. This happens with the relationship between USA and Spain, and with almost every european country.

But this situation is far from graciously host these criminals here...

I think we should all remember we're fighting an INTERNATIONAL war against terrorism - it's being waged by many countries - and when terrorists are taken into custody the country making the arrest has the right (and often the obligation) to try the terrorist due to crimes committed against the country where the arrest was made.

Kurt, the terrorists who physically wrecked the actual destruction are dead - and the Spanish courts have proved to be extraordinarily tough on those arrested for terrorist acts.

[ 11-26-2001: Message edited by: Puna ]

Fernando,

The death penalty is issue #2, not even discussed yet between the two countries. The issue at hand is that the U.S. wants to charge these people, and try them before a military tribunal for their crimes, thereby keeping sensitive information out of the hands of al-qaeda, and the extremist muslim world. That is what Spain says is unacceptable. We do not want them to be tried in the American civil courts. They don't deserve that right.

Spain is being somewhat two-faced on this matter, since they use a para-military tribunal system to try ETA members, then rejects the U.S. request to do the same thing for terrorists that act against the U.S.? Hardly a fair approach if you ask me. If that was the case, any ETA bomber who readily admitted they had killed people in Spain could live freely in the U.S., without fear of extradition. Why? Because you won't execute the son-of-a-XXXXX!

As for death penalty vs non-death, look how rediculous most of the European penal system is. In Germany, just a few weeks ago, terrorists who destroyed a disco, killing two Americans, amongst others, were given less than 12 years in prison. How in hell can anyone say that's a fair penalty for murder? Life in prison, without the possibility of parole, is the only non-lethal sentence that is acceptable for someone who commits murder.

What's sad is the fact that terrorists have constantly been allowed to run free in half of Europe, even after they were arrested, because European governments are afraid to do anything to anyone who isn't their own citizens, and even then doesn't have the guts to act out against these people.

It's time that Europe face reality. If there are grounds for extradition that show a prima facia case that is indictable, the person should be extradited. Not have the whole thing treated like the Pinochet situation, where both the UK and Spain ended up looking like world idiots, as a mass murderer lived in luxury, while both nations spent millions of dollars to end up letting him slip away.

It's time that European nations quit their petty bickering over extradition, and get on with what the full intent is. To get people who are guilty of crimes, brought to justice.

Gawd! Look at Einhorn in France! A convicted murderer they refused to extradite. It's time the courts of Europe join the real world.

Wolf (Who feels countries that "protect terrorists" through bull crap legalese are just as damned guilty as nations that harbor them, of being part of the conspiracy!)

I think that the question of extradition (to a country that imposes the death penalty) is, or will be, a key issue. I, personally, believe that the death penalty is barbaric, no matter how heinous the crime. And the attacks on innocent civilians by a group of "religious fanatics" certainly qualifies as one of the (if not THE) most horrific atrocities ever committed.

Thanks Carole Chiaro. In my opinion the fact that the vast majority of Spanish people(and of Europeans for that matter) are against the death penalty, must, at least, be respected (even if you don't agree).
As far as I know, I may be wrong, but these b------s arrested in Spain have not been proven anything but related to the actual killers yet, they might be alleged terrorists, but having some sangrias with Mr. Ata in Salou last summer, and exchanging some letters doesn't necessarily make them criminals. Where's the evidence?

Few people know what's like to be living under the constant threat of terrorism than the Spanish authorities, they've been ETA's #1 target for almost 30 years now. They're constantly fighting for etarras to be extradited from France or South America, and to obtain the cooperation of nations where it's proven that etarras live like the US(Florida). All I'm saying is that it's unfair for us to judge them so lightly. Neither of us has had to spend countless weekends(like the last one) attending victims of ETA's funerals, and trying to confort their shattered families.

Wolf, I don't know that terrorists here are judged by anything other than our regular courts¿?.

pim

ETA=Spain's nightmare

[ 11-26-2001: Message edited by: pim ]

PIM,

I too am against the death penalty, but regardless of my view, that isn't a legitimate reason to stop extradition to face a crime that was committed. These people, who were "indicted by a judge" in Spain, were found to have a definitive relationship to the specific acts that happened on 9-11 in the U.S. That was a Spanish judge, not an American judge, so there is ample reason for extradition to take place.

Yes, most of the higher echelon members of ETA were tried, and are being tried, through tribunals, not in your civil courts.

If punishing these members of al-Qaeda is wrong (in Spanish eyes), then what do you propose doing? Slap them on the wrist, and send them on their way so they can do it again?

One of the reasons they have chosen Spain as a refuge in the first place is because the Spanish government's law enforcement is a joke. The only people in Spain who serve hard time for extended sentences are members of ETA. Hell! Spain allowed two of the top terrorists (by the way, members of al-Qaeda) behind the attack and murders on the Achilli Lauro to live free, and on the beaches, even though they were known fugitives, and should have been extradited for the murders they committed.

Also, you might want to figure out why the Russian Mafia has turned the south of Spain into their "home away from home." They know damned well they won't be extradited to Russia to face their crimes. So, they have slowly began infiltrating Spanish society, and will eventually be an underworld force that you can't control unless your courts get some hair on their arses.

Wolf (Who thinks people who bury their heads in the sand are asking for trouble.)

Wolf,
Please do not think for a moment that I mean to be speaking on behalf of Spanish people, because I'm only stating my views here.

And I just wanted to say that I find it quite easy to criticize the Spanish government from our seats, we don't have to LIVE with terrorism the way they do!
They have to deal with what's clearly ETA's political branch(HB), and that takes a lot of tolerance....

I guess someone in this thread made some comments that made me feel the same way I feel these days with a lot of people here condemning the US government for the all the security measures/war/civil liberties/....issues affecting us lately. I find myself constantly having to defend Bush!(not my favourite guy), because, again, it's so simple to blame everything on him, and make the USA look like a country delighted to have an excuse to go and abuse the poor people of Afghanistan!!!

I don't know why the Russian mafia is settling down in La Costa del Sol, but that's always been an area known to attract different mobs¿?

Pim.

ALWAYS KEEP IN MIND THAT TERRORISM IS PROBABLY THE ONE ISSUE THAT CAUSES SPANIARDS THE MOST GRIEF, AND HAS DONE SO FOR A LOOONG TIME.