The attached link is to an article in today's NY Times - objective and good. Well worth reading http://www.nytimes.com/2000/11/29/world/29SPAI.html

Unfortunately, you have to register with New York Times in order to use their news service. Don't you just hate that? (hehehe... look who's talking )

Saludos, MadridMan

MM - Because the linked article was a headline (i.e. front page) I don't think you actually have to pay. If so - is there a way I can copy and paste the entire thing. Really is good -

Okay - after shooting my mouth off above - I clicked on the article and was able to open it. So you can probably ignore my original question. And yes, it is a daXXed shame you have to pay for it!!!

[This message has been edited by Puna (edited 11-29-2000).]

You don't have to pay for it other than giving some personal information to the New York Times when you register. I live in New York and wouldn't dream of buying the paper now that it's all on the web for free.

francisco,

i only meant that franco beat them down so hard that they became "spaniards;" nearly losing their language, culture, etc... before franco the vascs were freely vascs... now many of them would like autonomy... so why is this such a problem with the spanish government? i do know that many vascs like being spanish, and many do not. but i don't know which group is the majority...

geographically/politically they are spaniards. linguistically they were not, originally. there is no known origin of the vasc language (besides pais vasco) nor any other language that resembles it in the world...

but i do need to know much more about pais vasco because i am certainly no expert on it...!

real_megia:

The Basques have the greatest level of autonomy of any group in Spain. The goal of ETA is to create an independent Basque homeland, which is what their moniker means "Euskadi ta askatasuna": Basque Homeland and Liberty. I agree that Franco was an SOB to the Basques...they don't forget it, nor will they. Euskaraz (teaching Basque) was outlawed during the dictatorship, and even having a Basque flag (ikurriña) was illegal. My wife's uncle would've been thrown in jail, at age 14, had the Guardia Civil officer who caught him with an ikurriña not been a family friend...instead he told him to put it away, and he'd let him go...

You are also right that the Basques, although politically associated with Spain, never really came under Spanish "control" until recently (last century).

Sure the Basque region was part of Spain geographically, but don't be fooled, Francisco , the only reason you didn't have an ETA-like group under former castellano kings was the the laissez-faire attitude that they held towards the Basques. They were allowed to be Basque, and then, when their military might was needed, they saw the Spanish monarch as an ally, who they deemed worthy of support. Today, that trust is broken.

Franco plundered the Basque land and shipped in a bunch of unemployed Spaniards from other portions of the country to work in the steel mills. By doing so, he tried to blur the lines between Basques and Spaniards, hoping to dilute the culture there until it became a non-issue. He failed, as the Basque language and culture are thriving. However, now there is a vocal minority of Basques who say "no more betrayal, we want out."

calibasco,

interesting that your wife's uncle ran into a family friend in the guardia civil... i say this because one of franco's purposes of the guardia civil is that they are assigned to areas of spain that are not familiar, or are not their origin... in this way they could not favour the locals who might be family or family friends...

i have two friends in the guardia civil now that are from la mancha, but they are not allowed to go near that province while they are 'active.' one is near badajoz and the other is in la coruña... in the franco days the guardia civil had the power to execute a person on the spot for breaking laws. no wonder they were feared...

one of the books that MM makes available (or did make available) called, "Spain, the root and the flower," [by Crow], talks about this a little...

I know what you mean...apparently Franco didn't do enough of a background check on the guy. I asked uncle Mike the same question, because I knew of the stationing regulations. He couldn't explain it either.

Spain, the Root and the Flower is a good read.

I must disagree with the notion that Franco "sent unemployed Spainards into Basque country". If you look at the history of immigration (even within countries) in the world, you will see that people tend to move into areas of economic opportunity. Just as immigrants from all parts of the country and world have come to my current home of New York City, Spainards in the economically troubled postwar time in Spain traveled to areas of economic opportunity, both in Europe and within Spain.

caminante i think it's true that spaniards were encouraged to "relocate" to other parts of europe, including pais vasco, after the civil war...

ana maria matute makes a referencee to this situation in her book 'la trampa,' (by publisher 'destinolibro 101') where a boy's uncle was sent to germany to work and send money back to spain... this man became depressed and commited suicide as a result...

juan goytisolo makes references to this too in his book 'suenas de identidad,' ( by publisher 'seix barral' where his own uncle worked in germany too...

i don't know too much more about it than this, but it has been discussed on more than one ocassion in spanish literature and in history books...