Veering wildly off topic here, but I must have been a bull in a former life as I cannot resist a red flag waved before me

hummmm....you know who we re-elected for President...right??

and it's CHOOSING not to wear their pants like you and I would....(which again I will say is one of our stupider fashion fads....but then again, I think just about everyone has a photo in their album of something they wore that was SO COOL at the time that they are now embarrassed to show to anyone.) You remember peer pressure and the grinding need to fit in and be accepted at that age? They would probably wear a monkey taped to their head if everyone else did it. It does not make them stupid, just human. It would serve all of us if we took the time to teach them that following the herd is not required, nor is it particularly beneficial.

I will also have to agree with you that there is an attitude of entitlement and disrespect in general from a large number of teenagers now. But that does not create a blanket statement about all of them...stupid pants aside.

He is just a 15 years-old kid... remember when you were that age DD. It is not really that important.

Fernando

Let's put this back on track. If EllenOregon wants to take her kid to Spain and let him go out in public looking like an idiot she has the right to do so. The Spanish people take pride in their everyday appearance. They have also seen many movies from Hollywood that show the sort of dress she is talking about and the type of people associated with that appearance. Let us be honest, Hollywood has not painted a very nice picture of the people who dress in that manner. Further the family unit in Spain, the parents are in charge of the household and not the children. Most Spaniards would not allow one of their kids to go out in public dressed they way Ellen's son does. If she does elect to allow Jr. to wear that attire in Spain, she better be prepared to for some rather scornful looks and comments directed her way, as well as the direction of Jr.

Ellen has worked hard and saved for this trip and it should be a pleasure not torture. She came to this site asking for advice on if she should allow her son to dress as he would in Oregon. My input is simply not no, but H*ll no. She is going over there to have a good time and the trip of a life time. The looks and remarks alone would spoil anyones trip. If Jr. does not want to take moms advice then when she gets over there and after a few stares a remarks she can take him to El Corte Ingles and dress him like a Spanish kid.

I hope that Ellen does have a great time, as she has earned this trip. When she getts back I hope she will post and let us all know how it went. At the same time I would lay the law down to Jr. that he is not going to go over there looking like that. As Fernando said, it is rare that you see that sort of attire.

I agree that it’s not very common to see people dressed that way, but I don’t think it will necessarily ruin her trip if her son dresses the way he does in Oregon. No matter what he wears people will more than likely be able to tell he’s a tourist; although he probably will stand out more by wearing the baggy jeans.

I think a lot depends on where they’re going in Spain and what they’ll be doing. If they’re in a big city like Madrid the madrileños are used to seeing people from all over the world with lots of different fashions, so I don’t think it would be too shocking for them to see an American teenager in baggy pants. But, if they’re visiting some small village he’s sure to attract more attention. Also, it’s not the same if he’s walking around touring during the day or if he’s having dinner in a nice restaurant.

Regarding what desert dweller said: while you won’t see a lot of the really baggy jeans I sure have seen a lot of 15 year old Spanish girls in Madrid dressing in a way that I wouldn't want my 15 year old daughter (if I had a daughter) to dress—things like incredibly short, tight mini skirts or low-rider pants with the thong sticking out (which isn't really that much different that the baggy pants with boxers showing for the boys).

Good point Meg. Somehow, I suspect Desert Dweller won't be complaining about the teenage girls dressed in "incredibly short, tight mini skirts or low-rider pants with the thong sticking out." As for the boys in baggy pants--I've travelled many times with our teenage son (now 16). The rules we use for packing are based in practical matters i.e., travel light. We pack almost no t-shirts, because cotton knit doesn't wash and try well in the hotel sink. Our son wears silk/rayon/poly-cotton woven sport shirts for travel--they're comfortable in summer, and dry easily. Baggy pants take up too much room in the suitcase, heavy jeans are hot and they never dry after washing them. We don't let our boy sag his pants anywhere, but a good compromise has been to buy the baggy style, but in a size that fits the waist--hence no boxers showing. I like the suggestion of buying a few popular fashions in Spain at Zara or El Corte Ingles.

Regarding Desert Dweller's comment: "Frankly if he was my kid, he would either straighten up and toe the line, or stay at home and play with his video games while I was in Europe." I hope you aren't a parent. If a 15 year old kid can't "straighten up", then the last thing he needs is to be left alone for weeks while his parents tour Europe! Better that he joins his parents (baggy pants and all) for some enforced family time in Spain, where children are allowed to accompany their parents everywhere at all hours of the night.

I'm going to disagree a bit here.

I get to see thousands of "kids" every day at Complutense (in Madrid) and baggy pants aren't all that unusual--though the skinny, graphic t-shirt, funky-chic thing is more in style right now. What will make him stick out like a sore thumb are big athletic shoes, huge t-shirts, a baseball hat, or any kind of US sports team paraphenalia.

But I wouldn't recommend any draconian tactics. Let him wear what he wants and see what reaction he gets. Having one's world turned upside-down and being the odd-one-out is a great learning experience.

And isn't one of the great things about being a parent telling your kids what you think, watching them ignore you initially, only to get to see them discover later that you were right all along?

Well, you ladies have been reading the posts very well. Of course I would have no objection to the way those young chicas dress. Long live the mini skirt.

Very Interesting discussion, especially the last comment by Desert dweller. At least you have the honesty to admit your bias. I thank the others for their perspectives. It is important to understand the messages of clothes in context. Apparently to desert dweller, baggy pants equals worthless kid. This is hard for me to square with my son, who gets straight A's, swims every day on his high school team, and reads faster than anybody I know. No, he does not look like a gang banger, there is a range of fashion that is discernable to those who look, but I wanted him to be unobjectionable in Spain. His response to all this is to opine that he will bring his least baggy pants, and would be glad to visit clothes store in Madrid if I want to buy him Spanish fashions. He has no basball cap or sports t-shirts so he will not otherwise advertise his American origin but we can't help being tourists!

DD I think your attitude is way out of line, You are the one who has to realise there is more out there than you know about. Respect everyone and never bring anyone down by the way they dress especially a 15 year old !!!

Kenny: That is a real startling revelation that someone would say I have a bad attitude. What was your first clue? I think if you spent some time in the US you to would come to the same conclusion as me about the American male attire. Once in a while one will be "just going along with the crowd" but it is so rare that it is not worth talking about. Juvenile crime rate is so rampant in the US now that I think you would be amazed. I have hired my share of teenagers over the years, most of the time I have lived to regret it, they don't want to work they want the paycheck. A few of them have proven me wrong.I have one that is set to start work on Monday of next week. He has a line of bs, we shall if he can turn that into cooperation and production.

Ellen: Those young chicas have a more pleasing presentation than the young males. When I see those young ladies with their minis and low riders with the thong, it brings back a lot of pleasant memories. Some times the sight of one of them can have more of an effect than Viagra. Yeah I know, DD is a dirty old man, I have heard that before also.