how right you are Calibasco! I remember seeing the Peruvians all crowded around the 'broken' pay phones waiting in turn to make their 'free' calls home!

ps....just booked the trip for 3/29 - 4/14!

Leche

Thanks! Hmmmmm.....almost as much as buying the things, looks like......I don't mind doing it the "old -fashioned way" (if I understand you correctly...the payphone looks like a leisure experience), but I need to be sure I can stay in contact with my mom while we're there.

Ah, yes.... the ever threatening but never appearing black-outs (that was only a 5 minute deal, btw).......I feel for the Northern Californians who always get the brunt end of the deal (water rationing while we get the voluntary stuff, etc. I personally think Pacific and Edison just randomly turn on and off the lights to scare the people in the south (that 5 min afair was the only one we had) into thinking there really is a power shortage!!!! The water was more real and unfairly dumped on the north to bear the burden while the guys in the south just keep wasting resources......this is going to be a battle, for sure!

I believe what Rosemary/rgf was referring to maybe a bit too generally (unintentionally) was the presence of large blocks of towers on the outskirts of major cities in Europe (Sarcelles in París, Bellvitge in Barcelona) which tend to be kind of crummy. Of course they don't even compare to the level of nastiness present in large US cities.

However there is no reason whatsoever why a tourist would have to go to these places.

Back to the "where to walk" issue: Would it be too general to say that the south side of Madrid is (how can I put this tactfully) "less attractive" than the other parts, or are we really looking at a concentric area surrounding the city that is less attractive (rgf's barrios), or are there other cues that tip you off as to where you are in terms of (ehem) "attractiveness" in a "where to wander" context?

Thanks in advance.

I wouldn't worry about falling upon undesirable environs as a tourist. You'll most likely stick to the "center" of Madrid and will be surrounded by pleasant neighborhoods. Crime in Spain against tourists is mainly theft. In my opinion, you have a greater chance of being robbed in the Puerta del Sol than you do in any of the neighborhoods everyone is talking about.

As for the south side of Madrid is concerned, I'm not going to argue whether or not it's safe, you really will have no reason to go there. It's, for the most part, residential and is not somewhere tourists on a limited amount of time would go. That goes for other neighborhoods as well, Barrio de Pilar, Arturo Soria, Las Musas, etc. They just aren't "tourist material" and I'm assuming your time will be spent in the center. I'm also going to assume you and your mother won't be walking at 3:00 in the morning? At early evening hours (10:00-12:00) there are tons of people on the streets (including children). Simply avoid small, poorly lit streets if it makes you uncomfortable.

I would also like to point out the increase in graffiti in Madrid over the past few years. Please don't feel you have fallen upon "gang turf" if you see it (and you will). All neighborhoods in Madrid have some level of graffiti (including Barrio Salamanca).

Thanks, nevado. You know, I am not terribly concerned about personal safety as we're going to be keeping relatively early hours (before midnight, if not before 10ish) and I realize that the tone and timber of Western European cities is less threatening than those in the US. If I can handle a visit to East LA or an accidental walk into White Chapel in London, I'm sure all will be well. I'm just trying to be sure my mom won't equate anywhere we go as prelude to entering some of the scenarios that Mexico City has had to contend with in recent years. Que lastima!

Thank you for the words of comfort. And I'm sure that should we go outside the "tourist zone" we'll be ok as long as we mind our Ps and Qs and behave respectfully in our host country.(Eyes wide open). :-)

Regarding the cell phone issue: Following up on Antonio's and Calibasco's suggestions of looking at rentals vs. buying and the various companies they suggested..would you please take a look at the Airtel info regarding their packs at:
http://www.tiendairtel.navegalia.com:80/...0J74HLND0MX47V1

I had my eye on the 9,970 pta Ericsson (that would make two for just over $100!) I don't seem to be able to get to the information on the per-call charges on the included card (4,000 ptas) or other details regarding incoming/outgoing calls to land-lined phones. Incoming and outgoing international calls are available on these and (am I understaning this correctly?) these are GSM phones??? These are not rentals, but seem to beat the GSM duo pack from Amena and the GSM rentals I've run across so far.

Antonio, Calibasco (or anyone else),what do you think?

[This message has been edited by SpainSpud (edited 02-18-2001).]

[This message has been edited by SpainSpud (edited 02-18-2001).]

It's pretty complicated to choose among different offers.


[*] Calls made to land-lined phones are usually more expensive than calls among cell phones.


[*] Calls made among cell phones of the same company are usually the cheaper than the rest.


[*] International calls are more expensive from cell phones than from land-lined phones.

I've found this page with a list of rates for the different companies. As you can see none of them offer the 5 pesetas / minute you get with the pack duo. By the way, I forgot to tell you that you can buy any two prepaid Amena phones and then make them "duo" paying 1000 pesetas per phone. Thus you get the special 5 pesetas / minute offer at anytime.

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The best tips from your favourite hostal in Madrid.
Hostal Chelo at http://www.chelo.com

I wish everyone would re-read my post. I said, the central areas of Madrid-- and that's where all tourists stay/go -- are safe! I CONTRASTED this with the U.S., where dangerous parts of a city are often IN the heart of the city. I explained that in Spain and other European countries, the areas you don't want to be wandering around in are generally well outside the central city area and you'd never have reason to go there. Sorry I brought it up!!!!

rgf, I think your point above may have been overlooked by the whole "suburbio" conflict! Now that that's been cleared up, I'm sure everyone saw your "suburb" point "casa" your a "finca-ndidate" to answer questions. (Sorry, I couldn't resist a little barrio-puns)