Hi!
Well, now even my mother is checking out the message board! Anyway, I had a question I was hoping I could get at least one answer to : What are the rules and regulations of bringing ham from Spain? Is there any special application process one could go through in order to bring it with one, rather than sneak it in. I have heard that you can bring it if it is canned, or wrapped in plastic without air. But I would like to know if these are legal methods or just sneaking them in. Is there anyway someone who is living in Spain can send it to you by mail, how would one go about this?
I hope that you guys get to read this,and don't become exasperated ,
JanetP

[This message has been edited by JanetP (edited 12-15-2000).]

I can tell you from personal experience that no meats are allowed in....packed, wrapped in plastic, or whatever. I got an expensive and complete leg of jamon serrano confiscated at customs in san francisco one time. I didn't declare it and a dog found it. They questioned me and I just played dumb like I didn't know I couldn't do it. But they took it anyway.

Leche

Yes. As usual, Leche is 100% correct. However, ... hehehe.... People have been known to sneak this stuff through. I know 2 people...or rather, the MOTHERS of two women brought Spanish meats through US customs in the bottom of their purses successfully. No dogs were seen, but they took their chances and won.... that time. Dogs will smell anything, but maybe less likely if the foods are in ziplocked bags and the outsides (and between the folds of the exterior part of the zipper of the ziplock) of the bags are washed in soapy water after packing the meats. I don't recommend this practice at all. I know I'd never do it, but some peopel don't mind taking the risk. And as Leche says, act dumb and they'll just confiscate it and nothing (probably) will happen to you. I always imagine the customs agents having these HUGE lomo and jamon serrano sandwiches in the back break room everyday from all the goodies they took away from disappointed travelers. hehehe.. (licking lips).

Saludos, MadridMan

Jamon Toledense is allowed at this time. The last I heard was that Jabugo was being considered for entry. Its very easy to find out exactly how much is allowed by calling the Spanish Embassy in DC or by going to the website: www.spainemb.org
The DC embassy has an Agriculture expert available to speak to. No other meats are allowed now, that's a fact. If you are foreign they can and will confiscate your passport and make you recover it from your closest INS office for a fee-$100. Believe me, its happened to me.
Just stick to Toledense-it's alot cheaper!!

Canned stuff is OK. I brought in a Favada Asturiana 'kit' consisting of Fava beans, Chorizo, Morcilla and Tocino - hermetically sealed in heavy plastic, that we bought in the gourmet foods section of a Corte Ingles. I don't know if ours was legal or not: We didn't ask.

Here's what I know. Lots of people do sneak in chorizo, in the disguise methods outlined in other posts. But if they catch you ONCE, your name is permanently associated with the act, and everytime you come back to the US, they do the special chorizo check (dogs, whatever). One of my students is now always subject to search (and seizure). But another senyora I know always packs the stuff in sealed plastic, burries it in her hand luggage or suitcase and cruises right thru!!

Hi

Does anyone know the rules regarding bringing stuff back to England? (I mean chorizo, jamon etc etc ). I think we brought several specimens back with us last June (only small mind you), and I didn't really think about the implications.

The 'special chorizo check' sounds a bit humiliating rgf!

Thanks.

Jo

------------------
Madly in love with Madrid

Oops, the last time I came from Spain I brought the biggest lomo ever in my suitcase and it wasn't hidden at all. What happen if you are a US resident? Can you lose your residenci for something like that?

Jo-Anne,
I am pretty sure you can bring any kind of food, including ham, back to England since both it and Spain are part of the EU. I went all over the UK and Ireland with fresh fruit from Spain and they even saw it and didn't care, but my friend got the dog-search-and-confiscate in Miami just for some mandarinas. You lucky EU citizens.

Nuria:

No te quitaran la residencia permanante, pero si que te armaran un follon que ya veras!
Se lo toman todo en serio, sabes?
A mi ya mi pillaron y por casi me da algo.
JA JA JA

Suerte, 'quilla y felices fiestas..

guapetona, are you sure the Spanish embassy would be the right addressee for inquiries relating to US customs?
I would recommend the US Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service of the Department of Agriculture, you can send inquirys relating to concrete products under http://www.aphis.usda.gov/travel/email.html

Connie:

Thanks for the link..your right about going to the original source.The Spanish Ministry of Agriculture is equally knowledgeable, however. This is a customs issue important to both countries. I just thought that besides being able to learn about what Spanish products the US allows in MM aficionados could also check
out the site.

Felices Fiestas!
'Tona

Or you can contact CITI (Consejo Internacional de Transportes Interestatales) at www.citi.es. They have updated information on the exact amount of Jabugo allowed to be carried in one's pocket at any given time. They also have good info on the EU restrictions on export of fava beans.

Guapetona (bonito nombre, por cierto) gracias por la informacion, si a algo le tengo panico es que me quiten la residencia porque mi marido es Americano y no habla español, no se lo que hariamos si yo me tubiera que ir de USA

Nuria, I think the threshold of devalidating your visa will be substantially higher than for visas of people not married to Americans...After all, the US protects the rights of families. It would seem unproportionate to expel you just because of bringing in meat products, I would rather think they would impose you a fine.
I myself would never sneak in prohibited products though...The thing is that you do not only violate the law by bringing it in, but you would also have to lie in the customs form where they ask you whether you bring meat products. And the idea that your name might be on a black list in a database as rgf describes sounds pretty terrible especially if you are not a US citizen.

The rules about importation into the USA of certain food products are there for an excellent reason--to protect the health of our own crops and animal products. It seems incredibly shortsighted to me to subvert those good-sense prohibitions for the trivial experience of a transient taste sensation.

Some of those plant and animal diseases can be devastating, and once loose difficult or sometimes impossible to contain. Better to be safe than sorry.
Cantabene

[This message has been edited by cantabene (edited 12-21-2000).]

What the heck, it's not like the Spaniards didn't already bring over a zillion microbes to the "Americas" once in history...I'm not sure this is a case of "history repeating itself": Genocide vs. fabada and chorizo? Let down your hair a bit and enjoy the canned fabada!!!!!

Nuria:

Me puse ese apodo por guasa. Mi madre dice que me rio con ver una gallina cagar. No se-es mi sentido de humor.
Tengo un amigo que lo detuvieron por entrar
chorizos, tia! No solo eso, se equivocaron y lo pusieron que entro " una substacia ilegal"
Te lo puedes creer? Pago no se cuanto en abogados y lo demas y por fin le quitaron ese
cargo.
Bueno, me parece que se pasaron con el bastante. Le hicieron la vida un infierno por un buen tiempo. Cuando seas cuidadana no tendras que preocuparte de estas cosas.

Tronca, aqui se puede hablar en Espanol?
Se enfadara el Madrid Man conmigo? Bueno, ya es muy tarde.JA JA JA!!
Escribame a mi correo electronico, Nuria.
Me encantaria saber donde queda el Zara en NJ.

Os deseo de todo corazon una Feliz Navidad!!!

'Taluego
La Tona de Triana

Guapetona: Pues, prefiero que los "postings" se van en los foros titulados "en español" pero a veces está bien. ¡¡Mañana me voy a Peru!!!

Hasta Machu Picchu, MadridMan

MM:

Tio, que GUAY!!! Ok that will be the last you hear of me in Spanish, sorry.
I'm so used to speaking in Spanish I forget sometimes. It's more comforatble for me.
Anyway have ALOT of fun!! You're gonna love it! They say Machu Pichu is a religious experience.
Take alot of pictures and I bwish you guys a wonderful and safe trip!

'Taluego

La Tetona de Triana.
Oops I meant Guapetona..JA JA JA

PD: I fly to Columbus all the time but I've never felt the cold there like I did today!
How do you do it???

Guapetona,

The Zara in New Jersey is in Willowbrook Mall in Wayne... identical to the ones in Spain, down to the same tags on the clothes, but very expensive compared to what you would pay in Spain.

Majesty318, guapetona, do you live in NJ?????

Hi Nuria,

I live right outside of D.C.
I hope you had a great Christmas.
Have a great New Year!

La 'Tona

Yes I live in NJ... although I wish I were somewhere more exotic especially now with 15 inches of snow on the ground!

Majesty, I know what you mean. I live in Warren County and we had a LOT of snow here. Last year was the first year that I saw real snow (in Madrid we don't get that much) and my first thought was : I HATE IT!!!!
This year is different, I guess is because I had the experience of the last year and I bought nice warm clothes!

Just back from Madrid, and the ONLY thing that customs asked us about was jamon or chorizo, they didn't seem too interested in anything else...

They never ask me anything at customs, but this year, at Atlanta, when we went down the escalator to claim baggage, there was a policeguy and a DOG, who dutifully sniffed each passanger, for drugs? for CHORIZO??? dog would have LOVED some of that! good thing i wasn't 'bringing.' Now, a young man went over to pet the dog, and the police shakes his head, NO. The guy asks why, police shakes NO. Police indicates that the guy should move on: guy doesn't, and sez to the cop, go ahead, hit me!! At which point the cop hauled him off (backup was right there) and probably arrested him. I bet the guy was drunk from all the free booze on the flight. Yes, MM, this DOES have to do with the thread, in an obtruse way....

I returned from Spain via Philadelphia. My luggage was filled with sherry and liquour de huerbas. I had a hand-carry filled with a kilo of jamon de serrano, walnut cookies, empanadas with tuna and queso de bola. I wrapped throughly well the jamon de serrano and empanadas with tuna and queso de bola. Yes, police dogs were waiting at the custom entrance. No questions ask and exited without difficulty.

mclarke, you are amazing!! was it the kind of jamon that was sealed, or was it the kind you technically aren't supposed to bring in (that is, the GOOD kind!!). Yummm on the empanada, too. Wonder why the trained dog didn't find your stash. Probably it was a druggie dog!

What is empanada?

I know about the jamon (I found a grocery that sells it in Dayton, OH,but $$$!)

An empanada is a sort of little meat turnover (it can be cheese or, apparently, tuna). Having a good one is sort of like having a piece of your grandmother's apple pie. It doesn't get any better.

As far as !Jamon, Santa Jamon!, I inadvertently (of course) brought some in (only a few paper thin slices wrapped in deli paper) through Atlanta (with the dogs present) and did not have any problems. I truly didn't know it was a problem -- after all, the stuff is cured beyond belief. Of course, I came in on a flight from Amsterdam and saw one wide-eyed young man get nailed by the dog. I felt bad considering I was carrying (again inadvertently) a whole fresh tomato (I like tomato with my Jamon!).

Im saddened by those who subvert the regulations against the importation of questionable meats and veggies. Surely the small pleasures some people derive from the illegal imnports are of no importance next to the potential consequences of infectious stuff getting into the USA. What would you say to an epidemic of hoof and mouth disease, or mad cow disease in the USA? Or another variety of fruit fly to savage the citrus crops?

Again, it seems to be another case of people unwilling to make petty personal sacrifices for the general good. We've come along way from the atittudes of those patriots who staked their "lives, fortunes and sacred honors" to create this nation. Now, we have only indifference. Anything goes.
Cantabene

[This message has been edited by cantabene (edited 01-24-2001).]

Cantabene
I was told that you would be allowed to bring to the U.S.A. jamon iberico and queso de bola provided you buy them at the airport's duty free store. While waiting to board my flight back to the U.S.A., I saw at the duty free these items and at the U.S. Custom show the bag and receipt of the items you bought at the duty free shop.

I bought items just for personal consumption and not for distribution.

When I saw the police dog at the immigration gate, I made sure that hand-carry bag was away from the dog's nose.

Canatabene,
Don't travel outside of USA if you don't want to get infected. Or better, before you enter to USA after a vacation they should lock you in a room for a month, you don't know what kind of horrible virus you can bring from European countries.
Most of the people who bring stuff to USA is because they don't know they are not supposed to, I've heard many times that you are allow to bring meats if they are sealed.
Don't be so hard on people, or you never have done something that you are not supposed to?

Nuria:
The US department of Agriculture regards the importation of infectious agents into the country as a danger to agriculture.

The price of food relative to income in this country is probably lower than anywhere else on earth. Healthy crops are one reason.

And no, I do not feel it an imposition to obey the few rules for returning travelers. I believe the reason for those rules is valid and necessary. If you do not agree, feel free to remain outside the country.

Not bringing along your sausages and jamonor any vegetation is a small price to pay for being a citizen of this extraordinary country. These are intelligent regulations in place for the benefit of all. One would have be terribly selfish not to be willing to obey them.

Further, it is unnecessary to bring back anything like that. Such products are readily avilable in the United States.
Cantabene

mclark:
Customs duties and prohibited foodstuffs are two separate issues. The rules may be different for each. The greater issue is not about saving a few dollars on duties. It's about maintaining the health of our agriculture--surely one of the most important concerns we have. It's about good citizenship. Remember that increasingly antiquated concept?
Cantabene

[This message has been edited by cantabene (edited 01-25-2001).]

Cantabene
Well said! I just wanted my son and husband to have a taste of Spain.

Cantabene -

I tend to think that the prohibitions of bringing small quantities of food in from Spain has alot more to do with our gov't agencies just not wanting to bother with the paperwork and inconvenience. If it is approved for a FOR PROFIT company to import then it is approved for me too.

and what's this about telling someone to stay outside our country? I hope I don't see that again...

Leche

[This message has been edited by Leche (edited 01-25-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Leche (edited 01-25-2001).]

Leche:
The ability of some countries to import foodstuffs to the United States depends on what is called equivilancy. The santitary standards of the exporting country must be equal to the sanitary standards of the USA. When they don't, their food products are not admitted. That rule is in place to protect you, me, and 280 million other Americans. It has nothing to do with paperwork.

As to a suggestion that people remain outside the country, I think it entirely appropriate that visitors be expected to follow the same rules that bind U.S. Citizens. It's wrong for anyone to import proscribed meats and vegetable matter that may prove a danger to our agriculture.If you insist upon doing that, please don't come. We can do without you. We cannot do without a healthy and thriving agriculture.

That may sound inhospitable. But it's an uncaring guest who consciously subverts rules that are in place to help ensure a reliable and affordable food supply.
Cantabene



[This message has been edited by cantabene (edited 01-25-2001).]

That's true to the extent of if you were bringing in a barge full of dangerous produce. But bringing in just a personal amount of foodstuffs not for distribution or release into the atmosphere is of very little risk. It's more dangerous just to ride on the plane!

I still think it's the paperwork...

Leche

There are stories, though, of someone bringing in an rotten apple out of which a fruitfly or some other bug escaped that destroyed an entire crop? To someone not being an expert on agriculture, many regulations might seem ridiculous, but they might nevertheless make a lot of sense... Hard to assess without expertise in the field, hence in doubt I would also trust in what the Department of Agriculture prescribes, since they have experts on the matter which can evaluate the dangers better than I can... And it is better if they over-act than if they neglected the dangers. Of course, it is annoying for us, but at least there is still a chance to buy the goods here.

Leche says:
"But bringing in just a personal amount of foodstuffs not for distribution or release into the atmosphere is of very little risk."

Try that one on the Department of Agriculture.

If you can get them to change their minds, I'm all for it. But until then, I'm inclined to believe them rather then you.

I don't want to experience the day when I have to pay $3.00 for an orange because there aren't as many as there used to be.
Cantabene

It is not only the money. I am very concerned about BSE as many Europeans are now and I think it was disastrous that it was downplayed for so long and that neither were effective measures taken to combat it promptly, nor to contain it, but it had to spread all over Europe. Well, your chorizo in the suitcase won't infect the US with BSE---but I have no idea which risks it can entail and prefer to be on the safe side and follow the prescriptions of the Department of Agriculture.

mclark says:
"I bought items just for personal consumption and not for distribution."

I think that is a distinction made for those carrying drugs--to determine the weight of the penalty.

Distribution of food remnants may occur whether we intend it or not. They might, for examaple, be distributed through whatever system you might use to dispose of your garbage or other uneaten food.

Is the garbage bagged or put in a trash can and set outside to be collected? Might a stray dog or other animal get into it? Might the contents of a broken bag or overturned can be scattered so that the contents might be eaten by birds, or rats and squirrels or other rodents?

There are many possible ways in which infected food may be distributed into the environment. That's why the Government tries to catch it before it gets there. It's a practice that benefits all of us.
Cantabene

At the risk of sounding irrelevant, can I cut in here and ask a stupid question? (Ethica discourse aside for the moment)......Is this Jamon Serrano soooooo delicious???? Or is it just soooooooo cheap you can't resist the bargain it represents? And what other foods from Spain would inspire running the customs gauntlet?

(Mouth watering in anticipation of the replies)......:-)

Spainspud:
Spain has many foods that my be legally imported by tourists--no need to insist on meat products. One of my own favorites is the thick white asparagus--canned--which is especially good with home made mayo. Or folded into an omelet.

It's not impossible to get legally imported jamon. Set your browser to www.tienda.com or to www.donajuana.com for prices and brands. I hope you have deep pockets.
Cantabene

[This message has been edited by MadridMan (edited 02-07-2001).]

Spainspud, in the USA the closest thing to jamon serrano you can find easily is prosciutto ham, and it's still a slightly different flavor. Good jamon serrano is very expensive, and it's worth the extra cost. The best way to eat it is sliced so thin, you can almost see through it. Cheaper jamon serrano is best used chopped up in cooking (it gives sauces an excellent flavor). Go for the more expensive stuff if you really want to experience it.

I'm not sure if this will help anyone outside of Colorado...

We have chains of health food/gourmet grocery stores - Alfalfa's and Wild Oats - that sell jamon for not an outrageous price -

Also, the store Whole Foods, which originated in Texas, carries wonderful jamon as well. Whole Foods is the best.

Anyway, it's worth checking around for stores like these, you may find a treat!

Kimberley

ps - has anyone noticed that all the posts I reply to are food-related? I'm a very food motivated person, I guess

Hi

Me again -

For those of you looking for specific customs regulations try www.customs.gov/travel/travel.htm or www.aphis.usda.gov/travel

They seem to give some pretty good guidelines. Basically, though, just use common sense!

Kimberley