Do all Spaniards dress the same? Leather shoes, black trousers, no shorts.... Aren`t there any individuals in Spain? Why is it so crucial to blend in with the rest of the flock of sheep? I`m ME, even in Spain. It seems unlikely that this should present any problems for me on my upcoming trip, but after reading some of the "dresscode" answers on this page one has to wonder.

You know mlobear, i have to agree with you on this subject. i haven't responded to any of those proper dress attire things cause i just wear what I always wear. i have been to spain 4 times within the past two years and i wear whatever. (i am from Los Angeles) i mean no matter if i try to blend in i will always look like american, cause whether i like it or not, that's what i am, (though in my fantasy world i am a Madrilena!) but you know just wear whatever you want. I have no preference to dress like a spaniard or not, cause i really never thought about it and i like my Levi's and my slip on Vans tennis shoes. I have never had an issue or problem on my attire and have made a hundred friends there, so i think it has alot to do on your personality and how you act over there as an individual and how you come across to people, if you fully act like a tourist or not. I hang with the spaniard's because that's who i am i love them and their lifestyle, and i think that is what warms them to me so much, is the fact that i love their country so much and i enjoy their lifestyle and culture and their company. Just like here in l.a. you can spot tourists sometimes by something like their shoes or what kind of pants they have on, or the combination of it all, but nice people are nice people and i think that is really the importance of going to another country, how you respect their culture and the effort you make to get to know it and enjoy it for what it is!! Cause you know you could totally dress like a spaniard but your manerism will give it away in an instant that you are not, so it really is a coin toss! just be yourself. I mean wearing hoochie shorts or a brassiere for a night on the town in madrid isn't what i am saying to go out and wear, but you know what i mean. and there is some individuality in spain, not everyone is the same, but yes in general i do dress differently than them, but i party like a spaniard, i love like a spaniard, i feel like a spaniard, i speak like a spaniard, i live like a spaniard, I eat like a spaniard, but gosh darn it, i don't dress like one! I just don't feel a need to, and i have never thought about it and i don't think people should, (unless you want to be incognito or something). I guess what some suggestions people give are the obvious ones like hawaiian shirts or bermuda shots and stuff like that, or crusing around with roller luggage or LARGE backpaks, stuff like that, but other than that you'll be fine! Ole! que Vive Espana!

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Spain Page!! Check it out! http://www.geocities.com/missmadrid98/homepage.html?957296168010

Nice people are nice people nomatter where they`re from, how they look, how they speak. One should think this would be a simple thing to understand, but for many people out there it isn`t. Let`s all at least try. It would make living a whole lot easier for all of us.

Yes, nice people are nice people everywhere. I think you'll find that Spaniards will agree with you wholeheartedly. They are the most open-minded people I know.

Of course you can wear what you want. And Spaniards don't all dress the same! They wear basically the same clothes as the rest of the Western world. Extremely casual American dress is probably the most different. I think the posts you have been reading are written for two reasons:

The first, and most important, is that if you dress like a typical foreign ( American) tourist in the bigger cities in Spain, your chances of being robbed go sky high. Tourists carry plenty of cash, credit cards, and passports for the Black Market, as well as all kinds of great stuff in their luggage. Most travellers I know don't want to lose their stuff. It causes huge problems.

Secondly, there are many travellers who like to blend in when they travel because they feel they can experience the culture and society of the place better if they don't stand out. They can quietly observe. These are the travellers who appreciate tips on what to wear to look more like locals.

As a group, I believe Spaniards are incredibly warm, hospitable, accepting, intelligent, and talented people. You will be respected no matter what you wear. I hope you have a super time in Spain! It's a great place to be!

Diana is SO right! You can wear what you like, basically, and will feel comfortable and welcome. But if you are in high-traffic spots like central Madrid and your attire screams TOURIST, you risk losing your stuff more easily than if you didn't stand out. The main exception is this: people dress up to go to discos/night places. It also depends on age. All you cute Antonio Banderas and Jennifer Love Hewitt look alikes can wear your usual American stuff and look totally wonderful. Middle aged people in huge white athletic sneekers with a reebok warm up suit will look... well... you get the idea. My teenage son wore all his oversized A&F cargo shorts with athletic shoes and t-shirts, and looked fine. I, on the other hand, stuck to my cotton sundressed/skirts, nice walking sandals... and mi marido espanyol always looks semi-formal even in good Polo jeans and casual shirts!

Hi,
For people that like Spaniard clothes (this is not for you Mlobear ) there is a chain of stores in Spain called Zara (it is my favourite store) and I found they have stores in USA too. The only one that I know is in Nj, but I know there are some more around the country. They have shoes too )

Hi Nuria - Here I sit in my Zara trousers! (and Corte Ingles polo, what else?!). Spanish clothes are cool, well made, and cheap. Zara has stores outside of Spain, but the prices in Spain are lower (you can check this in Spain, because the price tags give the price in many currencies, and they ain't the same!).

!Viva ropa chachi!

Hi, el boqueron,
That's a cool name, are you from Malaga? (For non-spaniards: people from Malaga are called "boqueron" and people from Madrid "gato/a")
You are so right, here the clothes from Zara are double expensive, that's why I wait until I go to Madrid to buy new clothes. The queality is nice and the prices are so cheap...
Viva la ropa de España!!!!

[This message has been edited by Nuria (edited 08-11-2000).]

I didn't know Zara was Spanish! They opened up a store here in Toronto this year - in the Holt Renfrew Centre on Bloor Street near Yonge, if any of you guys from south of the border want to come up and take advantage of the weak Canadian dollar!

I did some currency comparisons on the price tags too, and noticed that the Canadian prices seem to be cheaper than the US or UK, for example.

Now I know where to buy some clothes before I go back to Spain in the fall, so I will look just like a Madrileno!!!

Si, viva la ropa de Espana, y viva Zara!

Does aynone know if Zara has stores in the Los Angeles area? I loved their clothes when I was in Spain. I had no idea they were in the States.

Regarding what to wear and what not to wear; the Spainards dress with class, especially in the big cites, and I found it very refreshing. Sometimes we Americans take casual to the extreme (ie. wearing baseball caps when dining out).

Hi Nuria, no I'm not from Malaga (I'm English), but the you got the reference right! Malaga's one of my favourite places (I always stand up for it on this board when people diss the Costa del Sol in general!), and I love "boquerones fritos" - along with the rest of the great seafood they have there.

!Viva la fritura malaguegna!

in direction of Mlobear's opening question:

are you equating individuality with how a person dresses?

everyone here is correct that you can dress how you want, especially in a cosmopolitan city/european capital like Madrid. spain has changed quickly in this view... my experience growing up was pretty strict, but in Madrid you see all types, punks(reminiscent of the 80's), doomers (all black-shoepolish hair), preps, and whatever else you are looking for...(to put in american terms).

in fact there is a great punk-rock scene in Madrid that i am a particular fan of.. i think you'll find that the individuality of spaniards goes much deeper than their appearrance.. you probably already know this...(look at all the great art and artists that have come from spain..)

the biggest thing is that you are going to get a lot of perspective from this board.. we are of all ages and experiences... missmadrid99 made a lot of really good points, but if you go into smaller and more rural areas, expect stares... it's mostly out of the curiosity that small-town friendly people have in something that is different... there are Madrilenios that would stand out and get stares in Toledo...

anyway, dress how you want. gage others if that would make you more comfortable... whatever you do, you would be fine and you would still have a blast!

pd> i have always thought that it was the harsh reality of the Franco regime that brought out the intense, creative, and loving spain that we know today...

[This message has been edited by real_megia (edited 08-17-2000).]

[This message has been edited by real_megia (edited 08-17-2000).]

Thanks for all replies. Interesting to see how you all think. Hopefully I will have a blast in Spain, not because of the way I dress, I`m counting on my winning smile to take care of that business. Will send you a post to say how I`m doing.

B.M

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I say go to Spain with an empty suitcase and buy some cool clothes! I buy and wear the clothes there and then have great memories when they get worn here in the U.S. This however is only an option if you have the money to live and buy without a tight budget.

Trying not to be too sassy or s*xy, I encourage you to buy underwear in Spain. I have never experience such comfort!

I recently discovered a chain store in Southern Spain called Taxi International. Cool clothes! We took teenage girls into this store and the other mother and I (both over 40) found clothes that made us very happy.

The only time I recommend that you really should dress nicely is on the flights. You get better service based on your dress, especially if there is a delay or another problem.

Your haircut and your eyeglasses will give you away as a foreigner.

Once I was in desperate need of finding an American to assist me on the streets. I directed my eyes to the earth. When I saw the sneakers of a college girl, I asked "Do you speak English?" She was from the USA. I was too tired to speak Spanish after almost 40 hours awake. She helped me. Your american clothing alerts other americans in need! I thank you for that.

I love MadridMan's forum and am a regular reader! This is the best site on the net!



[This message has been edited by Sofia (edited 08-19-2000).]

I second that- this being the best site on the net! You go MM!! (and all the other oh, so informed participants!!)

I am interested in the punk scene you spoke of real_megia. I tend to lean towards this type of lifestyle more than the conservative one.

Could you suggest some places that may be off the beaten track from the normal touristy type places?

I am really interested in record stores, clubs, cafes, events, tatoo parlours etc...that are in line with the alternative scene in Madrid.

If anyone else has any suggestions about this, please let me know.

Sheba-- one great place for the alternative scene is Chueca. Just get off the metro at the Chueca stop and you will be in the heart of it. Lavapies is funky, too. Tell us what you think when you come back, vale?

good tip, rgf.

sheba, chueca is pretty darn good, the tribunal area is not bad, lavapies is cool for sure. i like the tribunal area because it seems more densely packed, and the bars and clubs are tightly packed into little spaces. many of these clubs will have live music (the best kinds of clubs - in my opinion, as i'm not into the dance club scene).

my favorite bar, "rigormortis," which may not longer be around (bars tend to come and go, like ships in the night), is just west/northwest of metro Plaza de Espania, just next to the park. it's buried in the streets in an old basement-like space... the crowd is always amicable and they always have unknown punk bands, some good some bad.

surprisingly, some of the best punk music i've seen is in Manzanares, a logical stopping point on the way to Madrid from Jaen. in manzanares they have a lot of cool little clubs that offer live music of all types. and manzanares is a young city, relatively, so you don't quite get the dense packed in city feel, but you do get the pueblo-city feel, which is great. i saw barricada, aerobitch, and so yesclavo there in manzanares, all of which were great shows...

one last spot, and i can't remember the name, is in arguelles-moncloa off of calle andres mellado near a bar called the "sapo azul," metro moncloa. it's a two floor bar where the upstairs is "jevy"(spanish for heavy metal - noisy), and the lower floor is more punk oriented. i'm not into heavy metal so i can't tell you much about that scene, but there is a great punk scene around Madrid.

have fun in your search, Sheba!

[This message has been edited by real_megia (edited 08-28-2000).]

I was totally laughing while reading this post because I swear to you all that ZARA is da bomb! I bought so many nice things there! Mango is fun too, but the quality wasn't as "good" as ZARA.

Depending on where you go, climate rules the dress code. During July and August it was incredibly hot in Valencia, but we were on the water. In Madrid and the South it was WAYYYYYY hotter. I suggest UN MONTON of tank tops, because it gets hotter than a mug. I never wore jeans because it was too freakin' hot. I do suggest buying some denim there because it is much thinner than the typical levi's or gap jeans. Capri's are everywhere.

Shoot, just as long as you look nice and decent, that's all that matters. The inevitable truth is even when you look like you fit in, it's not gonna do you any good if you can't speak a lick of SPanish.

BTW, they're right about tight pants. I had a hard time buying pants here! No camel toe for me, thanks!

VIVA ZARA!!!

it gets hotter than a mug.

I've never heard this expression. Sorry that this isn't about packing.

Hey Mlobear!
Did I get you right? You´re asking if all spaniards dress the same? Well, all I can tell you is that that´s actually what americans are well known for worldwide. Are there AMERICAN INDIVIDUALS? I mean go to any big city in the world and take a good look at the american tourists walking around:
1) sneakers
2) levi´s or bermudas
3) polo/football/baseball or college-shirt
4) and of course a cap!!
Man, that´s what I call being an individual and most of all knowing what to wear;-))
I´m having the feeling, that you´re sort of pissed, cause they didn´t let you in some fancy club, am I right? Yes, there are some clubs in Madrid, where you have to be dressed in a certain way to have the privilege to get in. The same with restaurants: spaniards just don´t go out dining in shorts and wearing a baseball-cap on their head.
I don´t want to be obnoxious, but I really know both sides. I´ve lived in Madrid many many years, I am "half spanish" and have also been to the USA a couple of times and all I can say is that I´ve been to lots of malls and stores from NYC to Florida and all I ever bought was Levi´s 501´s (they´re much cheaper in the states) and some Fun-shirts (the ones with some funny s**t printed on them).
OK, just thought I should write what I think about how spaniards dress.
Saludos y un abrazo!

Well WDjunior. You got me wrong. I'm not even american. I come from Norway, and I don't dress in a typical american way. What I'm saying is that anyone should be allowed to dress the way they want. And I asked my question because I got the impression after reading posts here that all spanish dressed the same both young and old. I'm actually in Sevilla now and I see that people offcourse dress the way they want here to. The old people dress the same here as they dress back in Norway. It's all as I thought it would be. No hard feelings everyone. Sevilla seems like a really nice and beautiful city. Now I'll go out and enjoy the nice weather. Talk to you later. Love Bearmlo

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[This message has been edited by mlobear (edited 09-19-2000).]

Hey mlobear!
I think I owe you an explanation: I thought you were american because most of the crowd visiting MadridMan is. The reason for responding to your post like that is, that when I was still living in Madrid, every now and then I would get a visit from some pals coming from the USA, Hong-Kong, Australia... And it happened more than once, that they came up to me after a night out without me whining: man, that stupid bouncer didn´t let me in the club! All I could say is: look at you, you idiot. You´re trying to get into one of Madrid hipest clubs wearing a bandana, torn jeans and a Guns & Roses t-shirt?? Look at what people wear who DO GET IN.
What is really funny is that I´ve heard and seen so many tourists complain about the matter of not being able to get into clubs in Spain, although I don´t think it´s different in other countries. I mean, go to a hip club in NYC without knowing the "guys at the door" dressed up like a foreigner and see what happens. You are NOT getting in!!
However, have fun in Sevilla, man.
Hasta pronto!

I think the real issue here, WD, is that you're hanging out with people who wear Guns N Roses t-shirts! Totally kidding!

Maybe you friend thought if he dressed like Axl Rose, he would have got in, and for free!

Hey Jen, the whole mug thing is short for hotter than a mutha f*cka. Sorry 'bout that - I'm from Detroit...

ya te digo...

i am falling apart laughing having read all of these posts!! i especially like mamacita's "camel toe" comment... man this bulleten board is so funny sometimes!!

Forgive me for bringing up an old topic, but I'm new here and still discovering. I hope it's become clear from my other posts that I love Spain, but I feel compelled to share one unfortunate experience. I realize that I brought it upon myself, and I should have known better. But, here goes.

Years ago I had VERY short hair. My head was not shaved, mind you--no skinhead look for me. Otherwise, however, I was quite conventionally feminine--I even wore flower-print dresses--and at the time I was young and pretty enough to pull off the look. Until I got to Spain, that is, and went through three weeks of hell.

Looking back, I can see that it was naive to have expected otherwise, but I'd been to Spain before and had a great time and really hadn't thought about it all that much. I'll admit, it's not as if I didn't get the occasional insult in the U.S., but I also got compliments and never did I experience anything like what I endured in Spain.

It wasn't so bad in Madrid, though of course I got the staring and a few unpleasant remarks. But when I got to the smaller cities, it was a total nightmare. Even sweet-looking senior citizens saw fit to berate me publicly.

I was reminded of this on a long-distance bus ride in Castilla y Leon a few weeks ago. There was a young woman with pink hair, thrift-shop clothes, black leather jacket, etc. When I first saw her through the window, I'd assumed she was a foreign tourist, and I cringed at imagining the hell she'd set herself up for. But when she boarded and I heard her talk, I realized that she was actually Spanish. She was soft-spoken and polite with the driver, and she was pretty. Nonetheless, a few of the other Spaniards on the bus muttered insults at her and openly mocked her.

Again, please let me emphasize that I love Spain and its people. I am not being gratuitously negative here. But I do wish to point out that the quality of one's experience can vary greatly based on one's appearance. I've since become pretty savvy about travel, and I always make an effort to blend in, wherever I go. For me, it's worth it.

[This message has been edited by leuci (edited 12-13-2000).]

[This message has been edited by leuci (edited 12-13-2000).]

That is HORRIBLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

One of my girl friends in Spain had short hair, she was a Spaniard, but she never told me about anyone making fun of her.

I have cut my hair really short (and dyed it red) since I lived in Spain, when I had long blond hair. I actually cut in France, because there were so many cute, short styles there on young and old women.

MAkes me nervous about going back to Spain, because I am not likely to take being harrassed like that very kindly.

Please don't freak! I doubt it would be a problem in major cities or places with large student populations, like Salamanca. From what I've read, you've got the aplomb to pull it off--and that's really important! And it's something I sure didn't have back then, at least not in Spain.

[This message has been edited by leuci (edited 12-13-2000).]

okay. I won't freak

funny how short hair was once very fashionable in spain...

does anyone remember the rock band 'Mecano?' the lead singer had very short hair and turned on a whole group of women to the short hair thing... i wonder if those women ever endured degrading comments like those you speak about, leuci..? i knew pleny of women with short hair there... i don't think got that treatment..

how horrible that you were treated like that, leuci... i don't think anyone here would think that you dislike spain because of it... it's just those people that have to make the comments that annoy us, no?

RM How could anybody forget Ana Torroja? She has a great voice! As for the short hair, tons of women in Spain have short styles. Don't let anyone mistreat you for being yourself-here or anywhere! Tell them if they don't like it they don't have to look. Hee-Hee!

Leuci, may I ask you when did this happen? where?
Listen, I am not going to say that I don't believe you but it is very difficult for me to believe that people insulted you openly. I do believe that they could look at you and speak behind your back, but insult you... I don't know.
The reason why I doub it is because many years ago only people with cancer would have their hair that short, and believe me that nobody, except bad people, would laugh at that or insult you. My mother said that women who went to prison many years ago had their hair very short, but I never saw that so I don't know if that is true.
Please, don't think that I am calling you liar, I just would like to know if this is a long time ago and where, maybe you would teach me something about my country that I never knew
Besos...Nuria

This happened about 15 years ago. I was traveling throughout Castilla y Leon at the time. I think I was targeted particularly because I was alone; I suspect that if I'd been with a man, people would have stared but they would have kept their thoughts to themselves. The presence of a man also may have allayed concerns about my sexuality. Most of the remarks I got had to do with my femininity (or rather, lack thereof), my "ugliness," and my sexuality. I never responded, although I understood everything. It really wore me down, and it was years before I went back--with plenty of hair. Don't know how I'd respond now because I'd never put myself in such a situation again. Besides, I've reached that age where invisibility has begun to set in!

A couple of experiences were pretty over-the-top. One guy, a young man who was with a friend, exposed himself to me in broad daylight--I kid you not. I guess he was venting his frustration at my lack of reaction to their comments. But mostly it was pretty minor stuff that wound up having a big cumulative effect. The most surprising incident occured in a club in a small city. I was talking to a woman in Spanish. A man came up and started chatting with us (really with her). After a few pleasantries he actually said--with me standing right there and obviously understanding the language--"And what is this thing that you're with?" My friend totally chewed him out (I was too shocked to put two words together), earning my undying gratitude.

Given my experiences in Spain since, I'd be pretty surprised, too, if someone told me this. But I've seen the other side of the coin. Hopefully, things have changed over the years. I imagine that with evolving fashions and the pervasiveness of the media, people have seen a lot more diversity, even if perhaps they haven't witnessed it firsthand. (BTW, I'm not saying that the same thing wouldn't have happened to me elsewhere--even in parts of the U.S. I just happened to travel to Spain.)

[This message has been edited by leuci (edited 12-20-2000).]

Damn, I keep editing this thing! It's hard to know how much to say and how to say it....

[This message has been edited by leuci (edited 12-20-2000).]

[This message has been edited by leuci (edited 12-20-2000).]

It is so surprising for me to hear something like that! I am so sorry that they did that to you. That is the kind of people that gives bad reputation to my country, and hopefully people changed their minds since then.

Hey, there are jerks everywhere. I've had tons of wonderful experiences in Spain, before and since. I think most of the people are terrific. I just happened to press some buttons, and there are always those who'll single out folks they perceive as vulnerable and/or a threat because they are different. But I did return, several times, and I'm very glad that I did!

[This message has been edited by leuci (edited 12-20-2000).]

Will I look ridiculous wearing a red blazer in Spain (50-year old mom)? I look great in red!

mclarke, you would look fantastic! Hey, I am wearing my spanish clothes here, you know tight pants, black shoes... you should be able to wear anything that you want. I love red too, I have a beautiful red pants that I bought in Spain last year. And the dress that I wore to my last party was wine-red.

Nuria,

Thanks for responding quickly. I will definitely wear my red blazer, dress, and pants. Yes, Nuria, I will soon be in Spain. Dec. 29, I arrive in the morning.