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#29890 - 12/01/02 12:02 PM Doritos and 'Dipear'?!?!
Espe3 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 511
I'm starting a boycott.

Doritos has come up with a new product called Dippos. Well, promoting this product apparently they thought it was cute to try to come up with a new verb and call dipping in Spanish, 'Dipear'.

I'm all for globalization. However, I do believe that companies, upon entering a country, should hold true to the environment that they are selling to and not to disrespect it by coming up with ways to damage the host country.

I say ENOUGH! I don't want to see Spanglish made common or accepted! Not only does it hurt the countries youth in that each year that passes they get lazier with their speech, but also the foreigners that are trying to learn the language. No wonder there's that popular joke/misconception that to speak spanish just add an 'o' or an 'a' at the end of the word and people will understand you! mad Sad thing is, that the 'dipear' word is becoming mainstream with young people and not necessarily refer to dipping sauce! frown eek

So I'm going to write a rather forward letter to Doritos, and in the meantime, until they can learn the language, I'M NOT EATING THEIR PRODUCTS! I'll miss my cool ranch doritos, but its a small sacrifice to save my language!

Doritos is a part of Frito Lay. So that means, Doritos, lays, and Ruffles. I'm not saying boycott all products (although this would not be hard for me) but mainly the Dorito brand, so a sting there can send the message. Just change the word! :p They're from Texas, which may explain the Spanglish...but it won't kill them to learn the right words!

If anyone would like to join me on my campaign,
their phone number is from 9am-4pm.(CST) 1-800-352-4477, ask for operator 100.
Or write:
Consumer Affairs
P.O. Box 660634
Dallas TX
75266-0634
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#29891 - 12/01/02 12:42 PM Re: Doritos and 'Dipear'?!?!
Roe Offline
Member

Registered: 10/17/01
Posts: 176
Loc: california
So what is the proper way to say it then if it isn´t "dipear"?

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#29892 - 12/01/02 01:57 PM Re: Doritos and 'Dipear'?!?!
Espe3 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 511
Mojar en salsa...
or even the latin american 'mojo' could be used and adapted... I think their problem is they didn't know what to call dip, and therefore didn't know how to say to dip!

In any event, when you have a dip, in spanish, its Salsa (in Spain that is not exclusive to the Salsa as known in the united states- the tomato and veggie made sauce) and if you're dipping something into it, your mojando it.

I just refuse to accept a garbage word made up because of lack of effort.
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#29893 - 12/02/02 04:44 AM Re: Doritos and 'Dipear'?!?!
Anchovy Front Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 10/19/00
Posts: 661
Loc: Southern Spain
Some people do well with garbage words. Look at Las Ketchup... or should that be "Las Salsa Hecho de Tomate"? wink

When I have my biscuits with a cup of tea, should I say that I am going to immerse my biscuit in the hot tea in order to soften it and flavour it and then let it dissolve on my tongue after making sure it doesn't collapse in a soggy mess in the liquid if it stays in there too long, or shall I continue to say I will dunk it instead? confused

Sorry Espe, I take your point, but I think dipear is a fun word. And besides, foregoing my Lays or Doritos is not an option. laugh
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#29894 - 12/02/02 05:19 AM Re: Doritos and 'Dipear'?!?!
Eddie Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 06/05/00
Posts: 1713
Loc: Phila., PA, USA
Espe3 writes:
Quote:
... I don't want to see Spanglish made common or accepted! Not only does it hurt the countries youth in that each year that passes they get lazier with their speech, but also the foreigners that are trying to learn the language. ... Sad thing is, that the 'dipear' word is becoming mainstream with young people and not necessarily refer to dipping sauce!
I just refuse to accept a garbage word made up because of lack of effort.
Apparently you haven't spent much time in Texas. Words like 'dipear' (i.e., hispanicization of the English 'dip') are quite common in Tex-Mex. There are thousands of them! eek

What irritates me is Computador commonly used in Mexico - the former name was Ordenador. I don't have a current version of the dictionary published by Academia del Idioma Castellano so I don't know if it has become an accepted word. rolleyes
BTW
What word do you use in referring to your desktop computer in Spanish?? laugh

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#29895 - 12/02/02 11:17 AM Re: Doritos and 'Dipear'?!?!
caminante Offline
Member

Registered: 09/25/00
Posts: 204
Loc: New York City
ESPE3, where does Doritos use dipear? In Spanish or English language materials? In the US, Latin America or Spain?

The Spanish spoken in Spain and in other countries differs greatly.

As for computer, I have only seen "Ordenador" in Spain. In Latin America, "computadora" seems to be the norm. One is not more correct than the other.

The differences can be quite humorous - as with the verb coger. I saw the movie "Y tu mama tambien" this weekend and it contained quite a few linguistic clarifications needed between the Spanish spoken in Mexico and Spain.

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#29896 - 12/02/02 11:41 AM Re: Doritos and 'Dipear'?!?!
Espe3 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 511
Anchovy- Dunk is an actual word. Dipear is not.

Eddie, no I haven't spent ANY time in Texas. My reference to Texas is that the word, made up by the folks from frito lay who are BASED in TEXAS, and I know about the mexican/texas mix that it would explain using a spanglish word- although I still think they should have put some effort for using it on their materials in Spain insteading of trying to further bastardize Spain spanish. Not only that, but when these kids from Texas for example (I studied linguistics- so I know where I'm pulling this from) go to talk to their relatives in their home countries, or even just their parents who do not speak english, its been found that they CANNOT COMMUNICATE! They don't know enough spanish to carry a conversation, so they mix it with the english, which, to a certain extent, yes, you can get the jist, but Spanglish-something all bilinguals use at some point, is NOT a language! In the 80's when they were trying to standardize it (kind of like ebonics) they found that they couldn't, because it doesn't follow a regular pattern. More than that, depending on the area or even the person, the way they expressed themselves was different. So on a word by word basis, and with limited use, yes, you can understand, but you need to be familiar with both languages. But as everyday for people on either side- just english vs just spanish... it doesn't and won't work.

Caminante- this is a word they've put on their packaging for their new product in Spain. I'm from there and yes, am very well aware that our Spanish is different than that of Latin and Central America- I have friends from these different areas and we discuss often the different words used where and what they mean. But DIPEAR is NOT a real word- its Spanglish and its LAZY!

Computadora was used when they were relatively new, and mainstream, eventually in Spain at least, we came up with Ordenador to have a spanish word for it, as Computadora was derivitive of an english word, they wanted something more spanish. Because of the whole international thing, many words when discussing technology, is just left at that (software, is software, hardware is hardware etc.) however, some things ARE changed to the best alternative possible in Spanish hard drive is disco duro...there are some words I guess that don't make much sense to translate or adapt... and others that do, but to invent a new word when we already have vocabulary for it just because some idiot in the Marketing department convinced his/her boss that they knew Spanish! I've worked in marketing and made effort to find out what words in spanish are used in latin america for some of the things I had to translate. Its not that hard, really! Why they can't show the same courtesy I don't understand! I'm not trying to change them, why are they going to impose on me?!

Remember the Ford NOVA anyone?!?! They changed the name because in spanish speaking countries it didn't sell because it was understood as No va=doesn't go! This is called cultural marketing. It goes not just for country to country, but from group to group. The way things are marketed in the north is different than from the west, as they way things are marketed to the cubans in Miami is different than the African Americans in Queens. Some of these super companies have paid closer attention to because of these problems, but we let them slack off because for whatever stupid reason, Spain accepts dipear, they understand what it means so its not going to affect sales, but its just one more instance where we loose a little more of our language.

And sorry, but that BUGS me!
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#29897 - 12/02/02 11:46 AM Re: Doritos and 'Dipear'?!?!
Fernando Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 07/05/01
Posts: 1551
Loc: Madrid, Spain
The academy only accepts forgein terms when there doesn't exist an equivalent word in spanish. I'm with Espe in that "dipear" seems quite unnecessary. I see it more like a marketing resource to cause more impact.

There are some words in spanish accepted by the academy which come from english and enrich our language, others just harm the language since they are unnecessary.

Both "computador" (or computadora) and "ordenador" are correct terms. One comes from the english computer, but also from the spanish "cómputo" (makes reference to a device which makes computation). The other comes from the french ordenateur (if that is the correct spelling).

Usually the terms taken from other languages are modified to suit with the phonetic rules. As an example the verb "escaner" (scanner) or güisqui (for whisky).

Spanglish is an aberration to me. One thing is to enrich a language, and the other is to corrupt it (no matter if it is spanish or english).

Fernando

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#29898 - 12/02/02 11:55 AM Re: Doritos and 'Dipear'?!?!
Espe3 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 511
Gracias Fernando!
I think some people don't understand why I'm so bothered by it because its totally different looking at it from a foreigners point of view, to someone who is Spanish.

To explain it better, maybe I should say, its like forcing Americans to HAVE to learn Spanish to be accepted in certain areas, like Miami for instance. I don't think that's right either. English shouldn't become secondary anywhere in the US- but you have groups that insist on just that. Its great that I can hear so much spanish in certain areas, but there is no reason, being in the US, that someone who doesn't speak Spanish should have a hard time communicating!
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#29899 - 12/02/02 02:45 PM Re: Doritos and 'Dipear'?!?!
Shawn Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 07/28/00
Posts: 308
Loc: mentally - Spain, Physically -...
Right on Espe3!

I cringe every time I hear spanglish. This mix debases both Spanish and English. I get quite upset when I read about the further dispersion of this cacophonous rubbage. mad

I see daily in Los Angeles marketing campaigns that intertwine the two language in the same fashion Doritos has. Sadly, many of the "native" speakers of Spanish who live in the Southwest have to rely upon spanglish. There are countless words that have become widely excepted here by the Hispanic community that are not real Spanish words [e.g. checkear(comprobar), parkear(aparcar,estacionar), troka (camión)]These and many others examples have created a lexicon that would not be understood by a speaker of the pure "castellano" as advocated by the guardians of the language, the RAE.

I refuse to diffuse such garbage when speaking in Spanish. If the other person in my conversation does not understand the proper word, then I shall repeat the same sentence in English so as to avoid contributing to such ignorance. I accept regional variations of the language, so does the RAE, but spanglish's only claim is that it encourages people to speak two wonderful languages poorly at the same time.

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#29900 - 12/02/02 02:54 PM Re: Doritos and 'Dipear'?!?!
Espe3 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 511
Thank you Shawn, the point I was trying to make! smile
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#29901 - 12/02/02 03:28 PM Re: Doritos and 'Dipear'?!?!
SRedw Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/07/02
Posts: 200

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#29902 - 12/02/02 03:30 PM Re: Doritos and 'Dipear'?!?!
taravb Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 02/22/01
Posts: 736
Loc: Ames, Iowa, USA
What an interesting thread...I guess my feelings about this topic are sort of mixed. On the one hand, I recognize that language is fluid and constantly evolving. Nappies and prams in England become diapers and strollers in the USA, and we Americans don't live in flats, we live in apartments. There are countless other regional variations even within our country--pop/soda/coke, sub/hoagie/hero, etc. So although I don't like hearing "parquear" or other mutant Spanglish words, I understand that they serve a purpose for bilingual people or for communities that exist within larger English-speaking society. When I lived in Miami and spoke castellano, people laughed at me and called me a snob. On the other hand, some of my second-generation Cuban friends would look out the window and announce, "esta raining!" Ugh!

I guess as long as language education includes the proper forms of words, what people speak on the street doesn't bother me too much. We all use slang and various colloquial expressions in our day-to-day conversations, and we can just hope that we really know better when it comes time to write a college paper or sit down for a job interview. (I am a college teacher--I know this is pure fantasy on my part!).

That said, the fact that some CORPORATE ADVERTISING DEPARTMENT gets to pick (or create!) a word and spread it around where it's not currently in use is really troublesome. Language will continue to evolve, but who wants the engine of evolution to be the Frito-Lay corporation?

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#29903 - 12/02/02 03:42 PM Re: Doritos and 'Dipear'?!?!
Fernando Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 07/05/01
Posts: 1551
Loc: Madrid, Spain
I would really want all spaniards to speak english, the same way I would want (for example) all americans to speak spanish. What I can't accept is a medium term in which you can't properly speak english nor spanish, but a mix without any synthactical rules and a mixed vocabulary.

If there is people who can speak six or more languages, why can't people do the effort to speak spanish and english properly? These two languages are spoken in dozens of countries by more than 20% of the world population. They open doors by themselves to find good jobs!

Globalization would enrich almost every language (and perhaps destroy some other marginally used), but we should be able to manage this enrichment rationally. A good rule is only accepting a forgein word when there is no equivalent word in the given language.

Some accepted words from english in spanish: eslogan (from slogan), lifting, prefabricado, inflación (from inflation), vagón (wagon), raíl (rail), fútbol, (from football), mítin (meeting), estándar (from standard), hobby, ...

I also know two spanish words which are accepted in english (and almost in any widely used language): siesta and fiesta. May someone tell us more? smile

Fernando

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#29904 - 12/02/02 03:55 PM Re: Doritos and 'Dipear'?!?!
taravb Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 02/22/01
Posts: 736
Loc: Ames, Iowa, USA
Ah, Fernando, you're right...siesta and fiesta are two of the most important words in ANY language! smile Parties and sleeping...mmm!!!

I am sure there are tons of other Spanish words or words derived from Spanish in modern English usage--after all, many words must have progressed from Latin to Spanish to English, right?

In my home state of Florida, Spanish words are everywhere, of course--and not just in South Florida. I grew up in Jacksonville, and many of our roads, schools, etc. have Spanish names (which, of course, we mispronounced horribly, with our American Southern accents!).

Here are a few Spanish words we use in English:

patio, Florida, plaza, sierra, Nevada, rodeo, armadillo, tortilla (we use this in the Latin American way, as a flat corn or wheat flour bread), hasta luego, adios, pronto, casa, mano a mano, mosquito, piñata, pueblo, salsa, vamos/vamonos, aficionado, armada, macho...I'm sure there are many, many more.

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#29905 - 12/02/02 04:22 PM Re: Doritos and 'Dipear'?!?!
ELECTRACITY Offline
Member

Registered: 06/26/02
Posts: 144
Loc: CANADA
Spanish words in English? I can think of a few and believe it or not I find them all the time:

adios (from adiós)
adobe (originally Coptic tobe, "brick")
aficionado
albino
alcove (from Spanish alcoba, originally Arabic al-qubba)
alfalfa (originally Arabic al-fasfasah. Many other English words beginning with "al" were originally Arabic, and many may have had a Spanish-language connection in becoming English.)
alligator (from el lagarto, "the lizard")
alpaca (animal similar to a llama, from Aymara allpaca)
armadillo (literally, "the little armed one")
armada
arroyo (English regionalism for "stream")
avocado (originally a Nahuatl word, ahuacatl)
banana (word, originally of African origin, entered English via either Spanish or Portuguese)
bandoleer (type of belt, from bandolera)
barracuda
barbecue (from barbacoa, a word of Caribbean origin)
bizarre (some sources, not all, say this word came from the Spanish bizarro)
bonanza (although the Spanish bonanza can be used synonymously with the English cognate, it more often means "calm seas" or "fair weather")
booby (from bobo, meaning "silly" or "selfish")
bravo (from either Italian or Old Spanish)
bronco (means "wild" or "rough" in Spanish)
buckaroo (possibly from vaquero, "cowboy")
bunco (probably from banco, "bank")
burrito (literally "little donkey")
burro
cafeteria (from cafetería)
caldera (geological term)
canary (Old Spanish canario entered English by way of French canarie)
canasta (the Spanish word means "basket")
cannibal (originally of Caribbean origin)
canoe (the word was originally Caribbean)
canyon (from cañon)
cargo (from cargar, "to load")
castanet (from castañeta)
chaparral (from chaparro, an evergreen oak)
chaps (from Mexican Spanish chaparreras)
chihuahua (dog breed named after Mexican city and state)
chile relleno (Mexican food)
chili (from chile, derived from Nahuatl chilli)
chili con carne (con carne means "with meat")
chocolate (originally xocolatl, from Nahuatl, an indigenous Mexican language)
churro (Mexican food
cigar, cigarette (from cigarro)
cilantro
cinch (from cincho, "belt")
cocaine (from coca, from Quechua k&uacuate;ka)
cockroach (Two English words, "cock" and "roach," were combined to form "cockroach." It is believed, but isn't certain, that the words were chosen because of their similarity to the Spanish cucaracha.)
coco (type of tree, from icaco, originally Arawak ikaku from the Caribbean)
comrade (from camarada, "roommate")
conquistador
condor (originally from Quechua, an indigenous South American language)
corral
coyote (from the Nahuatl coyotl)
criollo (indigenous to South America)
dengue (Spanish imported the word from Swahili)
desperado
dorado (type of fish)
El Niño (weather pattern, means "The Child" due to its appearance around Christmas)
embargo (from embargar, to bar)
enchilada (participle of enchilar, "to season with chili")
fajita (diminutive of faja, a belt or sash, probably so named due to strips of meat)
fiesta (in Spanish, it can mean a party, a celebration, a feast — or a fiesta)
filibuster (from filibustero, derived from Dutch vrijbuiter, "pirate")
flan (a type of custard)
flauta (a fried, rolled tortilla)
flotilla
frijol (English regionalism for a bean)
galleon (from Spanish galeón)
garbanzo (type of bean)
guacamole (originally from Nahuatl ahuacam, "avocado," and molli, "sauce")
guerrilla (In Spanish, the word refers to a small fighting force. A guerrilla fighter is a guerrillero.)
hammock (from jamaca, a Caribbean Spanish word)
habanero (a type of pepper; in Spanish, the word refers to something from Havana)
hacienda (in Spanish, the initial h is silent)
huarache (type of sandal)
hurricane (from huracán, originally an indigenous Caribbean word)
hoosegow (slang term for a jail comes from Spanish juzgado, participle of juzgar, "to judge")
iguana (originally from Arawak and Carib iwana)
incomunicado
jaguar (from Spanish and Portuguese, originally from Guarani yaguar)
jalapeño
jicama (originally from Nahuatl)
lariat (from la reata, "the lasso")
lasso (from lazo)
llama (originally from Quechua)
machete
machismo, macho (macho usually means simply "male" in Spanish)
maize (from maíz, originally from Arawak mahíz) manatee (from manatí, originally from Carib)
mano a mano (literally, "hand to hand")
margarita (from a woman's name)
matador (literally, "killer")
marijuana (usually mariguana or marihuana in Spanish)
mesa (In Spanish it means "table," but it also can mean "tableland," the English meaning.)
margarita (a woman's name meaning "daisy")
mariachi
menudo (Mexican food)
mesquite (tree name originally from Nahuatl mizquitl
mestizo
mole (Unfortunately, the name for this delightful chocolate-chili dish is sometimes misspelled as "molé" in English in an attempt to prevent mispronunciation.)
mosquito
mulatto (from mulato)
mustang (from mestengo, "stray")
nacho
nada
negro (comes from either the Spanish or Portuguese word for the color black)
nopal (type of cactus, from Nahuatl nohpalli)
ocelot (originally Nahuatl oceletl; the word was adopted into Spanish and then French before becoming an English word)
olé (in Spanish, the word can be used in places other than bullfights)
oregano (from orégano)
paella (a savory Spanish rice dish)
palomino (originally meant a white dove in Spanish)
papaya (originally Arawak)
patio (In Spanish, the word most often refers to a courtyard.)
peccadillo (from pecadillo, diminutive of pecado, "sin")
peso (Although in Spanish a peso is also a monetary unit, it more generally means a weight.)
peyote (originally Nahuatl peyotl)
picaresque (from picaresco)
pickaninny (offensive term, from pequeño, "small")
pimento (Spanish pimiento)
pinole (a meal made of grain and beans; originally Nahuatl pinolli)
pinta (tropical skin disease)
pinto (Spanish for "spotted" or "painted")
piñata
piña colada (literally meaning "strained pineapple")
piñon (type of pine tree, sometimes spelled "pinyon")
plantain (from plátano or plántano)
plaza
poncho (Spanish adopted the word from Araucanian, an indigenous South American language)
potato (from batata, a word of Caribbean origin)
pronto (from an adjective or adverb meaning "quick" or "quickly"
pueblo (in Spanish, the word can mean simply "people")
punctilio (from puntillo, "little point," or possibly from Italian puntiglio)
puma (originally from Quechua)
quadroon (from cuaterón)
quesadilla
quirt (type of riding whip, comes from Spanish cuarta)
ranch (Rancho often means "ranch" in Mexican Spanish, but it can also mean a settlement, camp or meal rations.)
reefer (drug slang, possibly from Mexican Spanish grifa, "marijuana")
remuda (regionalism for a relay of horses)
renegade (from renegado)
rodeo
salsa (In Spanish, almost any kind of a sauce or gravy can be referred to as salsa.)
sarsaparilla (from zarza, "bramble," and parilla, "small vine")
sassafras (from sasafrás)
savanna (from obsolete Spanish çavana, originally Taino zabana, "grassland")
savvy (from sabe, a form of the verb saber, "to know")
serape (Mexican blanket)
serrano (type of pepper)
shack (possibly from Mexican Spanish jacal, from the Nahuatl xcalli, "adobe hut")
siesta
silo
sombrero (In Spanish, the word, which is derived from sombra, "shade," can mean almost any kind of hat, not just the traditional broad-rimmed Mexican hat.)
spaniel (ultimately from hispania, the same root that gave us the words "Spain" and español)
stampede (from estampida)
stockade (from a French derivation of the Spanish estacada, "fence" or "stockade")
tobacco (from tabaco, a word possibly of Caribbean origin)
taco (In Spanish, a taco can refer to a stopper, plug or wad. In other words, a taco originally meant a wad of food. Indeed, in Mexico, the variety of tacos is almost endless, far more varied than the beef, lettuce and cheese combination of U.S.-style fast food.)
tamale (The Spanish singular for this Mexican dish is tamal. The English comes from an erroneous backformation of the Spanish plural, tamales.)
tamarillo (type of tree, derived from tomatillo, a small tomato)
tango
tequila (named after a Mexican town of the same name)
tejano (type of music)
tomatillo
tomato (from tomate, derived from Nahuatl tomatl)
toreador
tornado (from tronada, thunderstorm)
tortilla (in Spanish, an omelet often is a tortilla)
tuna (from atún)
vamoose (from vamos, a form of "to go""Vamonos")
vanilla (from vainilla)
vaquero (English regionalism for a cowboy)
vicuña (animal similar to a llama, from Quechua wikuña)
vigilante (from adjective for "vigilant")
wrangler (some sources say word is derived from Mexican Spanish caballerango, one who grooms horses, while other sources say the word comes from German)
zapateado (a type of dance emphasizing movement of the h
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#29906 - 12/02/02 04:41 PM Re: Doritos and 'Dipear'?!?!
Espe3 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 511
Try latin!
But not the same thing. Those are words that exist, and have a meaning, and were adapted (my example of software, hardware) not made up just to be cute.

As far as latin spanish, mexican spanish, I don't know. I don't speak that.

But many of the words you listed... well, since parts of the US were at one time colonized by the Spanish, I see that as logical. Colorado, Florida, California and a bunch of states were named by the Spanish also. I'm not arguing this, but it doesn't make sense that its absorbed into Spain or its mainstream- made up words, for what/!? Like we don't know how to speak? English is not our heritage, spanish is. That can't be said of the US. There is alot of spanish in its heritage.
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#29907 - 12/02/02 05:04 PM Re: Doritos and 'Dipear'?!?!
ELECTRACITY Offline
Member

Registered: 06/26/02
Posts: 144
Loc: CANADA
You are right about the heritage. I agree. The French have argued the same about the invasion of english words "weekend, parking etc". I am against the "anglaiszing" of Spanish.

PS: Some of the words in the list are Spanish. Others have a much stronger connection, as you mentioned, to Latin.

PSS: Here is a good one. In square dancing, the guy says "doo si doo". Thats spanish, "Dos y dos" = two by two.
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#29908 - 12/02/02 05:51 PM Re: Doritos and 'Dipear'?!?!
Fernando Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 07/05/01
Posts: 1551
Loc: Madrid, Spain
eek What a bunch of words!!

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#29909 - 12/02/02 06:42 PM Re: Doritos and 'Dipear'?!?!
Shawn Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 07/28/00
Posts: 308
Loc: mentally - Spain, Physically -...
One of the most important factors in binding people together is a common language. Those who have adopted spanglish as their tounge have turned their backs to hundereds of years of history. The Spanish and English languages have such important literary and cultural legacies that it is repugnant to witness the movement toward spanglish. I would dread a day when "native" speakers of Spanish would have to read Quijote, El Cid, or La Celestina in translation. Just as anglophones should regect rewriting King Lear in Ebonics or bumpkin babble.

Spanglish does not encourage greater contact between the two rich cultural traditions, it stifles it. By excepting this mongrol language, you encourage people to eschew the rich linguistic links that are fundamental to greater mutual understanding. We should advocate learning both great languages, so that we continue to share the riches of our respective traditions.

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#29910 - 12/02/02 09:06 PM Re: Doritos and 'Dipear'?!?!
esperanza Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 01/06/01
Posts: 775
Loc: New York City
I strongly agree with you! Espe3, my pet peeve in my high school classes is when the students "make up words" adding an "o". They think it is SOOOOOO funny rolleyes and I absolutely hate it. frown I was so discouraged by the overwhelming amount of students that do it with such ease ( and no hesitation!!) that I mentioned it on Parent Night in September. I mentioned that the students tended to frequently "make up words" and the parents started laughing eek so I IMMEDIATELY told them that it WAS NOT funny. I needed their support and they need to buy their kids GOOD dictionaries to use as they do their homework. I really hate the Spanglish that is taking over here in NY at least. Down the block from my house there is a sign that says "rentamos apartamentos" it drives me crazy each time I see it. Anyway, "dipear" is Ridiculous. Basta.

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#29911 - 12/02/02 09:15 PM Re: Doritos and 'Dipear'?!?!
taravb Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 02/22/01
Posts: 736
Loc: Ames, Iowa, USA
I just noticed..."dipear" looks an awful lot like "dip-ear." How silly is that?

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#29912 - 12/03/02 06:54 AM Re: Doritos and 'Dipear'?!?!
Eddie Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 06/05/00
Posts: 1713
Loc: Phila., PA, USA
Espe3 writes:
Quote:
... no I haven't spent ANY time in Texas. ... I still think they (Frito Lay)should have put some effort for using it on their materials in Spain insteading of trying to further bastardize Spain spanish. Not only that, but when these kids from Texas for example ... go to talk to their relatives in their home countries, or even just their parents who do not speak english, its been found that they CANNOT COMMUNICATE!
I agree! I have encountered this with Hispanics (mostly young people) who are functional illiterates in English but who offer as a defense: 'we speak Spanish.' They are also unable to communicate intelligently in Spanish without the 'crutch' of Spinglés.
Quote:
... Spanglish-something all bilinguals use at some point, is NOT a language! In the 80's when they were trying to standardize it ... they found that they couldn't, because it doesn't follow a regular pattern.
I disagree with your assumption! I consider myself bilingual and I have never used 'Spanish-something.' If you find castellano words in my English language 'posts,' they will be italicized.
I was unaware of any effort to standardize what you call 'Spanglish.' Who are the "they" to whom you refer in your 'trying to standardize' comment?
BTW
It's pretty much the same on both sides of the U.S.-Mexican border. In the store windows in Ciudad Juarez, Monterrey and Guadalajara, Jalisco most technical terms tend to be the same in (Mexican) Spanish as in English. And as I typed Guadalajara I recalled that its roots are in Arabic: In Arabic it means 'stony brook' or something like that. Could what we are seeing be a language evolving? rolleyes

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#29913 - 12/03/02 10:33 AM Re: Doritos and 'Dipear'?!?!
Miguelito Offline
Member

Registered: 01/23/01
Posts: 603
About 'dipear', it looks that's nothing new, I have been doing it all my life with the bread in the fried egg for example, other times in the central dish, although my mother didn't liked me to do that so much.

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#29914 - 12/03/02 11:18 AM Re: Doritos and 'Dipear'?!?!
Espe3 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 511
Miguelito,
Where are you from? Dipping isn't new. Although the word, at least to those of us from Spain is new. What you describe to us is called mojando, or if its a thinner sauce, haciendo sopas.

Eddie. I make no assumptions. Also, the arabic influence that you're talking about, again, different, and very natural as Spain was invaded by the moors for MANY years and left their mark everywhere, and not in a bad way. Its also like Spanish leaving behind words and names in America, as we were there before the English. Just like Native American names that have been left behind (not enough I say!), but except for the real words, again I'll refer to computer talk, Hardware, Software... to INVENT a word, is different. It doesn't contribute anything positive, just accepting poor speech and vocabulary, and encouraging more of it.
_________________________
Madrid!

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#29915 - 12/03/02 11:38 AM Re: Doritos and 'Dipear'?!?!
AmbassadorTex Offline
Member

Registered: 09/20/02
Posts: 38
Loc: USA
Great discussion (I've been lurking the whole thread.)

Although I'm as willing to believe that marketing campaigns are the biggest "dumbing-down" factor in modern society (for the lowest of low, see almost ALL American campaign ads!), maybe this one is just an attempt at humor...

For example, the grocery store Kroger used to have an ad campaign in which the made-up English word "krogering" was used. The little jingle at the end of every ad was "Let's go kro-ger-ing! Let'd go kro-ger-ing!" etc.

Now this is, although intensely annoying, a bit clever and does show evidence of the higher level thinking required for all word play (puns, etc).

The word did not become part of everyday speech except for the cause of humor and almost always for tongue-in-cheek references to shopping.

Now it's passed (as all fads do) and if anyone said "Let's go krogering!" to me without a LOT of self-deprecating sarcasm, I'd probably kick him in the shins.

I do understand the fear expressed by carmen and espe, though. Hopefully the folks at FritoLay (who are Texans, after all, and therefore must be given the benefit of the doubt! laugh ), were just trying to be clever and not hoping to cause lasting linguistic change.
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#29916 - 12/03/02 12:29 PM Re: Doritos and 'Dipear'?!?!
Castiza Offline
Member

Registered: 09/11/00
Posts: 176
Loc: Madrid
I've also watched the Doritos TV commercial but I don't think "dipear" is becoming a common verb in Spanish. People will keep on using "mojar" instead of that made up word. Don't give it so much importance. The Spanish language (at least in Spain, we haven't received the Spanglish) is strong and old enough to resist all this invasion of odd "words". The same has happened with lots of invented words in the past, they had its moment of popularity but, in the end, they faded away (anyone remember: fistro pecador, jarr, a guan a peich a gromenauer or, now, aserejé?)

What worries me a lot more is how so many TV presenters, journalists and other "representative" people, who are considered educated, make more and more spelling and grammar mistakes in their native Spanish language, due to the lack of proper education in schools nowadays.

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#29917 - 12/03/02 12:31 PM Re: Doritos and 'Dipear'?!?!
Fernando Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 07/05/01
Posts: 1551
Loc: Madrid, Spain
You know what? After all I think that the ad was made by a spanish publicity company, and by a spanish publicist (is that the word?), which is much more annoying.

Blame on us! We don't take care of our own language.

Fernando

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#29918 - 12/03/02 01:48 PM Re: Doritos and 'Dipear'?!?!
Miguelito Offline
Member

Registered: 01/23/01
Posts: 603
Sorry Espe, maybe I understood something wrong. I'm from Madrid, and I 'mojo' and 'sopo' since I began to eat bread. This kind of food like doritos doesn't hang me so much.
I think 'pecador' has kept still today, 'fistro' not so much. Oooh, frown I enjoyed Chiquito so much, I miss him.
There are also some words that come from comercial brands like 'clinex', 'corn flakes', .. as they're new products they have easier to stay in the language.

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