It was about time I started a new thread....

Well, it looks like once again an "imported" American chain is going to establish itself in the center of Madrid pretty soon. I passed the Palace Hotel last evening and saw that a Starbucks Coffe place is about to be opened there. Right between Vips and Planet Hollywood, in what once was the glorious Galeria del Prado.
Is it any good? 'Cause I live right next to it.

[ 02-27-2002: Message edited by: MadridMan ]

Hi Pim, I'm not sure if the first thread I read here more than one year ago was tittled café con leche and later there was another one called Starbucks, people didn't talk very well about it.
Personally I like very much the cafés but when they are not chain looking, like Ital café and so on, I like the cafés around Opera, café Barbieri in Lavapies and so on. I still haven't go to café Gijón.

Interested (and angry) members should read the " How's the Coffee??? " where we all lament about he possibility of Starbucks opening a coffeehouse in Spain and how the Spaniards will receive them.

(There's also the " Cafe Con Leche- Help! " thread which Miguelito mentioned)

pim, I'd say the Starbucks coffee is an "acquired taste", but I don't really care for it... although I have been known to go to their coffee houses just to relax and read the paper -- at the price of an overpriced cup of "burnt" coffee.

I can't say I'm very happy to hear the news that Starbucks is invading my favorite city on the planet. But thanks for telling us, pim!

Saludos, MadridMan

How on earth can Starbucks last more than about 5 mins in a city with hundreds,possibly thousands,of places so much better its embarrassing?

I´d be curious to find out what they will charge for a cup of coffee since they are so outrageously overpriced in the USA.

What's next Buca Di Beppo or the Olive Garden in Rome? Ugh....

Evil Capitalism!
Yet another American globalised company invading foreign shores and trying to corrupt foreign culture. It is a sorry sight when travelling that you stumble across so many McDonalds, KFC, Starbucks etc. I certainly stay well away from them. If I wanted American culture I would go to America. All I can say is boycott them. If people do not go to them then how can they make money to broaden their stake in the world?

Calm down, calm down everyone. Don't be so hard on "American capitalism overseas invasion"; always keep in mind that the owners of these businesses are most likely to be Spaniards (or Italians, French, or whatever....) who have approached these chains, looking for their expertise in the hopes that their road to commercial success is less risky.
So, at least in my view, and realisticly speaking, if anything, it's a "friendly invasion".

You may be right but what I find ridiculous is something that I saw in Cordoba. All over the city you will see street signs pointing various sites in the city like the direction of the train station, the museum, the city hall, perhaps some famous restaurant, and, believe or not, to McDonalds. Yes, folks, these are official, city-installed signs pointing you to where nearest Big Mac can be found. I found that to be a bit much. How can a Mickey D be in the same league as all these other historical sights. Has McD actually bribed the city to install these official signs?

I assure all of you Europeans out there that haven't been to a Starbucks that you aren't missing anything.

They are known for their tactics here in the U.S. of going and opening up so many shops in a given area that they drown out the competition(hence the Onion.com joke about opening one in the bathroom of an existing Starbucks) - because Starbucks can afford to lose money on the short term, and then scaling back.

Lets hope that Europeans will enjoy the wonderful and cheap coffee they already have, not to mention the wonderfully diverse cafe culture that already exists, and will steer clear of the Starbucks.

Sip down those cafes con leche while you still can!

BK

My feelings after watching my father's small grocery store that specialized in service and quality be pushed out by the supermarkets 30 years ago in the US, that no matter how many jobs the "expertise" of franchises and chains creates...it can never replace the pride of ownership, the quality of servise, the creativity in merchandising that the small "mom & pop" businesses bring to our day to day lives. And it just stinks that they cannot compete with the massive buying power of the giants.Starbucks go home!!

Karen,

Your post rekindled old memories for me. I know what you mean, and realize how painful all of it must have been for your family, after all those years of hard work.

Slowly, big business is killing the Mom & Pop operations, and with it, the dreams of millions, and the closeness of community, and family, that once was the corner stone of our society.

If you look at WalMart and it's growth, they leave behind a legacy of downtown areas in smaller towns empty. The Mom & Pop operations die, unable to meet the prices of a conglomerate. Although most people do care, they end up buying from WalMart anyway, because economically, for their family, it makes sense.

Along with the death of the small downtowns goes jobs. People who were employed no longer have jobs, and they certainly don't employ as many in a WalMart as the large number of small businesses did.

It made me remember something that happened a long time ago.

There was this butcher shop in the neighborhood where we lived back in the 60s. My wife and I always bought our meats from the old Italian gentleman who owned it. It was a twice a week ritual for my wife, as well as others who lived around there. One woman in particular, who was also a friend of ours, was a steady customer. That is, until the week after her husband was layed off from his job.

Her being about eight months pregnant, and unable to work, meant that they were going to have to try to make ends meet on his unemployment compensation, until he was either called back to work, or found another job.

My wife stopped into the shop one day, and the old man asked my wife where her friend was. He hadn't seen her in nearly two weeks, and she was like clock work, showing up on Mondays and Thursdays.

My wife told him how her husband had lost his job. He asked her if they had a freezer, she said they did. When she got home, she told me about the conversation. That was on Monday.

The following Friday night, the people came over to our house for dinner. During the meal, she told us how they'd just had some great luck.

It seems that the butcher shop we all went to had accidentally cut up too much meat on Thursday night, and the butcher called them. Since he wouldn't sell frozen meat, he wondered if they'd have a problem with it. Would they take it off his hands. Then he told them they could pay him in two or three months, whatever was convenient for them.

My wife just smiled, and glanced over at me. Yes, they were lucky. Lucky enough to shop at a butcher shop where an old Italian gentleman, who'd sing Italian songs all day had set up shop.

The last time I thought about this great old man, and his butcher shop, was about nine or ten years ago, when my wife went back to that old neighborhood to take what will probably be our last look at it.

The butcher is gone, but the the building isn't. It's a tanning salon now. Things change, and not always for the better.

Personally, I'll boycott Starbucks in Spain. Let's hope enough people do so that the business that ends up closed is Starbucks, not the Mom & Pop coffee shop down the street. They deserve to live forever.

Thanks Karen. You gave us something very valuable with your post.

Wolf

[ 03-05-2002: Message edited by: Wolf ]

Being a huge coffee drinker and having spent 3 months all over Spain I have to say I'm very happy that Starbuck's is coming. If there was one thing that I missed while there it was a good coffee. I loved being immersed in the culture and trying all the foods but the coffee situation just plain stunk. Cortados, cafe solos & cafe con leche...I've tried them all. What's up with the 2 ounces of coffee anyway??? And why is it so wrong if an american company pumps millions of dollars into an already international community which Madrid is?? If you want any of these 2 ounce shots of "coffee", stick to the endless amount of cafes, I'll be in Starbucks with a smile when I return for the next few months.

Cheers teebosco.Next time anyone asks me for an example of American stereotype,Ill send them here.

Yeah, the invasion of chain stores sucks as far as the local culture is concerned, and they are cold blooded, but often times they are cheaper and sometimes have a larger selection. The people show what they want with their dollars, and generally have choosen chain stores. It is nice to bash places like wal-mart, but are you going to tell a single mother with 3 kids making minimum wage that she make do with even less just to keep a little culture? As for Starbucks, I personally don´t think Starbucks coffee is better than anywhere else and definitely not cheaper so I make it a point not to go there.

Personally I think that all of Europe should be walled off as a "living museum" like Colonial Williamsburg in Virginia or those tribes in Brazil who've never seen a lightbulb. I think in order to save Europe from the inherently evil influence of American "culture" (gosh, can we call it that?) we need to make sure that United States has absolutely no business here on the continent.

I mean, who doesn't HATE American businesses? Especially franchises. They're all evil. The simple people here in Spain will be powerless to resist this dark-power. It's obvious their ability of free will and choice will be completely overwhelmed by the presence of Starbucks and we need to protect them!! I can see it now, miles of tract-homes and strip malls are coming. We really need to do something...

But oh wait, I helped launch Starbucks' first website. Crap... a couple more Starbucks around Madrid would really help the name-recognition and make my resume stand out some more. Ah, nevermind, forget all the other stuff, I still need a job. I guess I'll just have to have some respect for the Spanish people and not get nutty about a single coffee shop. Oh well...

-Russ

P.S. Hey Mick Nick have you ever seen European tourists in the U.S.? Have you ever listened to the French complain about the coffee and the food? The Spanish complain about the spices? The English complain about, well, everything? Teebosco wanted a nice American cup of coffee while he was here in Spain and that makes him somehow a stereotypical ugly American? Get a clue...

Roe,

You're right. Bashing doesn't work. But pointing out the economic impact in a small community does not represent bashing. It simply states the facts, and it's the reason that many small communities have started efforts to keep WalMart out. Whether they are right or wrong in this matter doesn't mean anything. The fact is, they are trying to save jobs and businesses in the community. If that's wrong, they're still doing it for all the right reasons. There's no doubt that shopping WalMart is wise. I guess that's why most of us do. We put our pocket books in front of what others might consider the common good.

Wolf

Wow! What a reaction form the crowd over a coffee bar. This is probably "Dr. Evil's" doing.

Can anyone living in Madrid tell me where you can find a place that serves "good" Cuban style coffe? I'm not talking "cafe solo" either. Would appreciate some feed back so I can get a "buchito" during my visit in August.

oye chico!!
just ask for a cortado..in spain its just not sugared for you! its the same thing but no sugar..remember that spaniards and cubans have very similar tastes.
besos,
la tona

First of all, the coffee in Spain, in most of the places I went, is the one of the best I've tasted. The coffee is roasted in small amounts of sugar, and many countries in Europe have their beans roasted in Spain because of their special processing. My friends and I, who appreciates a good tasting cup of coffee, loved the coffee I brought back from Spain on Feb 4,2002. And in my opinion, Starbucks regular cup of coffee doesn't taste like anything special, unless you are one them people that only drink coffee in different flavors, then I guess it would be good in Spain. I just love it strong, slightly sweet, with a little leche..simple and soooo good .Anyway, since we do live in a world where everyone is different, who am I to judge others .jaja..ANYway, as they say, different strokes for different folks
:p

Un cortado. Never would have thought to ask for that. Guapetona, gracias por la informacion.

Un cortado, o "cortadito" to a cubano is cuban coffee with a hint of milk. This was design for those who could not drink cafe cubano by itself.

teebosco, while I happen to love the Spanish cafe con leche, I could see missing a large, sipping-style cup of coffee, like they serve in the US. I think you can ask for a cafe Americano (correct me if I am wrong folks, I may be thinking of south america), and you get really close to that. They add hot water to the espresso, lightening it up a bit.

Just for a fun twist on this thread, check out an old article from "The Onion" at http://www.theonion.com/onion3709/starbucks_phase_two.html

Tara

I think it is nice to have options. If someone doesn't like Spanish coffe now they can get American coffee in Spain.
But I think that the coffee won't be the same than in America. I have tried many American things in Spain (donuts, coca-cola, Burger King...) and they don't taste the same than here. I guess that they "adapt" the product to the country's taste.
Nuria

La que se ha montado sólo por una cafetería

By the way, as I have always said, it surprise me how protective americans are with us but it is charming.

I think there is nothing wrong in general to expand a business in a forgein country. For me that enrichs that country though variety and investments, and also the company which owns the business.

Something different is what (for example) McDonald's did. This company opened its first "restaurant" in Spain 25 years ago (or so). At that time, Spain awaken from a closed dictatorship, and was almost without external influence in food customes. Burgers were something alien to us, who were used to typical spanish bocadillos (a spanish/french bread filled with cheese, chorizo, salchichón, ham, cured ham, tomato, omelette, bacon, lomo, or, yes MadridMan, calamares).

At first McDonald's have no success, cause it was very difficult to sell bad-quality food in an environment filled of home-style fast food (apart from bocadillos, tapas, croquetas, empanadillas, spanish omelettes,...). What they did? Well, we are not in hurry, let's invest lots of money in publicity and change the peoples' customes. And for sure they did it.

My generation grew celebrating birthdays in McDonald's, eating this cheap fast-food and getting used to it. To the point that in big cities now is typical to have dinner in this american fast-food restaurants (Pizza hut, McDonald's, Burger King,...) and other spanish equivalents (TelePizza mainly). However not every chain has had success here. Wendy closed all it's restaurants ten years ago when they couldn't afford a court when it was demonstrated the low standards of cleansing they had, Kentucky Fried Chicken has had a very limited success, Big Boy tried once and it didn't last one whole year, and others, for example Taco Bell, have not even tried to launch their business here.

My friends and I decided some weeks ago that we have had enough of bad service, poor quality fast food for our whole life (we ordered weekly a pizza). So we are now trying to go to better restaurants no matter they are somewhat more expensive.

I thing Starbucks has nothing to do here. There are lots of places to drink a coffee, and even some (spanish?) chains as Jamaica Coffee Shop and others.

By the way (and to finish this post) I would want to ask you forgeiners, what would you thing if a spanish company (Zara, Loewe, Telepizza,...) launched a business in your countries? Would it be an attack to american culture?

Let people decide what they want. We can't be conserved in formol and without the influence of the rest of the world

Fernando

Zara is already in America...at the Short Hills Mall in New Jersey, I think, and maybe also in NYC. Hooray for Zara!

And as for Telepizza, ICK! (Though this has nothing to do with Spanish business, but rather with bad pizza!!).

Tara

I like Zara, I wish that they had more stores in the states. Yeah, I agree with taravb, telepizza sucks. Their new pizza with cheese in the crust is a little better. I think that the biggest kick, if telepizza opened up in the US, would be seeing all of their delivery people on mopeds like they do here.

Hey Fernando:

Zara is here in the good ole USA (Nnew York City). My girlfriend, of course, wants to go shopping there, and she would be equally delighted to have a Loewe's here.

As for TelePizza, though, y'all can keep it. I couldn't figure out if what I was eating was poison, rubber, or both. The very sight of their mopeds is now enough to send me into convulsions.