After tentatively planning a trip with a friend, my friend bailing, me being laid off and then gainfully emploed, and now planning the trip again, I need some help with an itinerary, mechanics, etc..

Airfare sales for fall and early spring went on sale on Saturday. After playing around with a lot of options, I made reservations on Delta Airline\'s site today for an open jaw ticket Boston-Madrid, Barcelona-Boston for $476 including tax. This price was an absolute bargain. A roundtrip Boston-Madrid was $426, but since there aren't any non-stop routes from Boston, I have to fly to JFK, which is fine. Just as a comparison the long-haul roundtrip flight just JFK-Madrid was $515 including tax, and I have a seat on that flight. Don't know why Delta has more expensive pricing out of NYC, but that's not my problem, as I originate out of Boston.

So, I depart on March 13th, arrive on the 14th of March, and return home on March 30th, which gives me 16 days on the ground to sightsee. The cities that I have decided to go to are Madrid, Segovia, Toledo, Cordoba, Seville and Barcelona. I'm trying to figure out a few things: how many days should I spend in each city, do I have over nights in Segovia and Toledo, or do I do them as day trips from Madrid, do I buy a rail pass or point-to-point purchases for the train, if a rail pass, do I buy it here in the US or in Spain, and should I add another city to see on the way. I am going to find a cheap flight from Seville to Barcelona, I believe my options are Air Europa and Iberia, are there any others? Air Europa has a one-way fare of approximately 122 Euros.

I'm not very prepared for this, as I had stopped my research on Spain months ago. Honest, I have the "Insight Guide to Spain" and all of the brochures from the Spain Department of Tourism -- I at least looked at a map for a route.

So, the next question is where do I stay in each city? Location and safety in each city is most important, followed by price. I'm always looking for a bargain, but if I should stay in 3 and 4 star hotels, please let me know. I've already sent an email inquiry off to the Hostal Lopez in Madrid, which has received a lot of positive reviews on this site. If that is booked, what other locations should I look for in Madrid? What are the recommendations for other cities?

Also, I'm guessing that end of March is cool in Spain, and that I will need just a leather jacket, am I right about this? I won't be wearing sneakers, but can I wear new jeans?

Okay, enough questions for now, I appreciate all of your help, and I promise to do more research. Thanks for all of the advice, this site is absolutely stupendous for information, much better than anything that I could find on the Fodors website.

Dear Lipstique,
Gal, you certainly did get a good airline rate, give yourself a star! I always have to pay extra because I am flying from Orlando, Florida
.

Regarding Hotels...let me recommend that you look into one of the best sites for reserving a 3 to 5 star Hotel, the Bancotel web site. For 50 Euros per night you can select from a variety of excellent accommodations, including the distinguished Paradores. Bancotel is a unique system whereby you make your reservation in their system, then purchase a talonario or coupon book of five coupons later and use these coupons to pay for your stay. The hotels are ranked one, two, or three talonarios. For example the Hotel suecia in Madrid is usually a one coupon book; the HUSA Princesa is a 2 coupon stay; and the famous Palace Hotel a 3 coupon per night stay, the Palace is usually $300/night, so you can stay for half that amount. You can buy the coupons before you leave and through a travel agent in Spain.
I purchased three talonarios, two from their online ordering system , and one from Halcon viajes ( Calle de Alcala) in Madrid.

I used Bancotel in my last visit( Dec 2001/Jan 2002) and found it to be a very economical way to stay in excellent accommodations. In Madrid I stayed four days at the centrally located Suecia Hotel, and it cost me i coupon or then $45.00 / night. Then on my last leg I stayed at the HUSA Princesa ( a 5 star hotel) for $90.00/night ( 2 Bancotel coupons).

If you use the search function on this board you will see many postings by other members about bancotel.

Buen viaje!

Wow, very aggressive trip for a 16 day stay. Segovia and Toledo can be done as day trips from Madrid, each taking a day.

Since you are press for time and want to visit Cordoba and Sevilla, which are south of Madrid, another option is to do Toledo as a day stop on the way south if you travel by train, but more than likely, will have to overnight there unless you can store your luggage or make it disappear. You can then continue by train from Toledo to Cordoba and on to Sevilla. Since you are planning to fly from Sevilla to Barcelona, this will save time.

Personally, I would do more flying. This will let you spend more time seeing places rather than moving around. For example, I would do Madrid (with day trips to Toledo and Segovia), Sevilla and Barcelona. You can do Cordoba from Sevilla as a side trip. Although expensive and if possible, I would look into flying (saves time) Madrid to Sevilla and Sevilla to Barcelona as you were planning.

I am sure that the members can give you more viable options. If you are looking for advise on Spain, you came to the right place. Good luck and have fun!

Thanks for the advice so far, I really appreciate it. I've started to look into Bancotel, and actually received some email messages already. Prices look excellent. I really want to stay at the Suecia, but it is not accepting vouchers at the end of March. Also, one of my requirements is to stay in a paradore, but it really doesn't make any difference in which city.

Have to add a city to my itinerary, I want to also go to Granada.

Here's what I am thinking, please feel free to make suggestions:

Madrid - 3 days sightseeing, stay in Madrid
Segovia - 1 day sightseeing, stay in Madrid
Toledo - 2 days sightseeing, stay in Madrid or Toledo (having a problem here deciding whether to stay overnight, as it would be on the way to Cordoba by train). Also, do I need 1 or 2 days in Toledo?
Cordoba - 2 days sightseeing, stay in Cordoba
Granada - 2 days sightseeing, stay in Granada
Seville - 3 days sightseeing, stay in Seville
Barcelona - 3 days sightseeing, stay in Barcelona

That works out to 16 days, if I stay in Toledo for 2 nights. I'm up early, and believe me I will be on the first train or flight in the morning, however, the flight from Seville to Barcelona is in the evening (only flight from what I can tell). I was thinking of flying from Granada to Barcelona, but there aren't any flights between the 2 cities.

I had thought of flying from Madrid to Seville, but I don't think I save anytime, as I still have to get to the airport, check-in, etc., compared to just getting on a train. I checked the train schedule and the ACE train ride between Madrid and Seville is 2.5 hours, and its only 2 hours between Madrid and Cordoba, so I thought it would make sense to stop in Cordoba on the way. Now I have to find out if there is a direct train between Cordoba and Granada, and how long that will take, as it would seem silly to backtrack from Seville to Granada, back to Seville to catch a flight to Barcelona.

Now amongst all of this confusion, I'd love to receive your advice. You are all Spain experts, and I am not. Is there a city I should drop from the mix? Madrid and Barcelona are givens, as I believe everything else is except possibly Segovia, but it is so close to Madrid.

Believe me, I'll have a ton of other questions to ask, but who better to ask than the experts on this board.

Cubatex, I just reread your suggestion that Toledo only needs 1 day, so following your advice, I would stay in Madrid for 4 nights, going to Segovia for 1 day, then take the train from Madrid to Toledo in the early AM, and stay in Toledo for 1 night, and follow the rest of the itinerary. Now, that gives me 1 extra overnight, so where do I put it in the mix. I'm being aggressive, and don't need to add another city, but just tell me which of the cities I have chosen needs an additional overnight.

Thanks again.

Booklady, just spent most of the evening looking at the Bancotel site again. Realized that I was looking at March, 2002, which is why there was no availability. I guess I was having a blonde moment, even though I am truly a brunette. Looks like there is plenty of availability in March 2003 at 5 star hotels for 1 voucher in all cities except for Toledo (no availability at all), and in Madrid, 3 stars are 1 voucher, and 4 and 5 stars are two vouchers. I'll need to buy at least 4 checkbooks for 20 vouchers, basically $1000 for 16 nights, which seems fair to me, actually its a bargain, since I usually stay in 3 and 4 star hotels when I travel in Europe.

I have some questions regarding Bancotel. Do I have to buy the vouchers and have them in hand before I book the hotels, or just have the vouchers charged to my credit card and then start making reservations? Do I receive a confirmation for each reservation? What is the likelihood of arriving at the hotel with my guaranteed reservation and voucher in hand and then finding that the hotel will not accept the voucher, want the voucher and more money, or find out that my guaranteed room has been given away? What happens then?

Thanks for your input.

Hola Lipstique,
Love the Blonde Moment
Regarding your questions.
You can make your reservations first after you register and become a member. At the time you make your reservation they provide you with a confirmation number, and you save this information with your records. You can make as many reservations as you need and can change your reservations anytime.

You then buy your coupon books. I bought two coupons through their e-mail system, which was easy and flawless, four days in advance of my flight, I'm a procastinator . They then mailed my coupons via UPS and arrived in my home the day before my flight. I was a bit scared because I thought the coupons might not get to me in time. So I called them, they were exceptionally nice and said not to worry that if that did happen they would cancel those coupon books and issue me two more books and they would be waiting at the Suecia. The young man called me the day before my flight to make sure I had received my coupons! What service!

I made it a point of confirming my reservations both with Bancotel and with the Suecia, just to avoid arriving and not finding my accommodations ready. I had no problems at all.

I then purchased my third coupon book at Halcon Viajes, and as a matter of fact they issued a voucher and said that the hotel would give me the coupons, and that happened just as they said.

Another thing I did was to change hotels while in Spain and that worked marvelously. Initially I was suppossed to stay at the Reina Victoria, but last December that area, Plaza Santa Ana, was under construction and it was a mess, plus my son wanted to stay in a Hotel with a gym. So I went to an Internet cafe and went to the bancotel site, cancelled my Reina Victoria request, and then made new reservations at the HUSA Princessa. Great place to spend the New Year's celebrations!

Another thing about Bancotel is that if you call them directly they will make a reservation for you in one of the Many Paradores, so if you want to stay at the Parador of Toledo with its breathtaking view of the city you can use your Bancotel coupons.

I hope you have a great trip.

Regarding Toledo: You only need two days if you forget your map. Translation: Bring a map unless you're into the feeling a mouse in a maze gets while searching for the cheese at the exit.

You might consider using your "mandatory Parador" stop in Toledo. We've had good reviews of it here on the board. Another option would be the Parador in Alarcón, which you might be able to fanagle as a mid-point between Toledo and the coast. Check your map and your plans, as I simply recommend the Alarcón Parador, but am not sure how it would fit into your travel geography-wise...

Booklady, thanks so much for your instructions. I think that I have mastered the Bancotel site, but it certainly helps to set up a matrix. Anyway, these are the hotels that I have made reservations for, although I haven't purchased the vouchers yet, which I will do in February. I need a total of 20 vouchers.

Madrid - 6 nights at the Tryp Capitol, a 3 star - 1 voucher per night = 6 vouchers (advertised rack rate $150/night) -- from here I will make day trips to Segovia, Toledo and El Escoril. The Tryp Capitol is on the Gran Via.

Cordoba - 2 nights at the Conquistador, a 4 star in the Jewish Quarter - 1 voucher per night = 2 vouchers (advertised rack rate $165/night)

Seville - 2 nights at the Melia Colon, a 5 star hotel - 2 vouchers per night = 4 vouchers (advertised rack rate $250/night)

Granada - 2 nights at the Melia Granada, a 4 star hotel - 1 voucher per night = 2 vouchers (advertised rack rate $227/night)

Barcelona - 4 nights at the Rafael Diagonal Port, a 3 star hotel - 1 voucher per night = 4 vouchers (advertised rack rate $178/night)

Total cost of vouchers, 1000 Euros, approximately $1000 or $63/night USD. But, I still need to add the 7% sales tax of $70 to the bottom line.

I was unable to find a hotel in Toledo through Bancotel, and although that was not a major issue, the problem that occurred is that there is no direct train service from Toledo to Cordoba, and I would need to return to Madrid for the direct train to Cordoba, so I decided to make Toledo a day trip from Madrid.

If you think I need to make any changes to the hotels, please let me know. I am truly following your advice to the letter.

Now I need to give a thorough look at the train schedules, however, I did see that there seem to be plenty of options during the day. Seems that the trains are either running every 1 or 2 hours. And, the last thing I need to do is book a flight from Seville to Barcelona. Only Air Europa flies that route, and I tend to doubt that prices are that flexible. I think the cost of a one-way ticket is about $150, and I'll buy that ticket sometime during the winter.

Anyway, thanks again, looking for your comments on the hotels I have selected.

indeed! visiting precious Spain just before the Ides of March! (all said in a Shakesperean english voice)

well i would agree, quite an agressive itinerary for such a short trip, so good for you!

Toledo does not require two days, necessarily, but certainly requires a map, for those unfamiliar with the lay of the city. I would suggest just getting started early that day and i think you'll see it all. if you do spend that extra day in Toledo, try to spend the night at the parador on the south edge of the city way up on top of the hill overlooking the city. you'll get your own 'vista de toledo,' and it's far enuff in advance to make the reservation.

also, if you are really looking hard for where to kill that extra day, why don't you spend the night in segovia and enjoy the nightlife (which is typically pueblo-style nightlife), and just head south to La Granja and visit the summer palace of the Bourbon Kings...? (ever see 'Farinelli'? there is a scene in the gardens of that palace -- exquisite!). i consider the ride thru the Navacerrada (mountain pass) on the way to Segovia to be one of the coolest mountain drives ever...

hope this helps! have a BLAST!!!

andrew
:wq

Hola Lipstique,
Your itnerary sounds wonderful. You've given yourself enough time to comfortably see each city and have free time to have fun. Your idea of making Madrid your home base while you do day trips to Toledo, Segovia and el Escorial is very doable. You can search MadridMan's database for information about what to see in each city and advice from experienced travelers on ways to make your day trips to these cities more enjoyable.

The Tryp Capitol has a wonderful location, on the Gran via and the Plaza de Callao, in the center of Madrid, between Preciados street (Preciados is a great place to buy shoes! ) and Gran Vía. It is very close to la Puerta del Sol and la Plaza Mayor and of course El Corte Ingles, Spain's premier department store. The Callao metro is almost at your door. Another nice thing about being in the Gran Via is that it is easy to pick up a taxi. I used both the Metro and taxis, if I had time I used the Metro if I was in ahurry to take the train I used taxis, they are relatively inexpensive and very safe.
Hope you have a lovely trip, and report back to us when you return!

Booklady,

I am truly getting confused. I had another member write to me to tell me to avoid the Tryp Capitol and that whole section of the Gran Via. I then cancelled that reservation, and followed your earlier advice and made a reservation for the first three nights at the Husa Princesa. I have emailed the Husa Princesa to inquire if they would accept the Bancotel vouchers for the following three nights. Still waiting for an answer, but the price is right 2 vouchers per night (100 Euro) vs. a rack rate of 330 Euro per night.

The other advice I was given was to stay at the Suecia for 6 nights or the Intur Palacio San Martin. The Suecia only has 1 night available for Bancotel, and will not accept vouchers for the other 5 nights, so that is not an option for a hotel (I sent an email inquiry). The Intur Palacio San Martin will accept vouchers for the first 3 nights, and I have sent an email inquiring if they will accept the vouchers for the following 3 nights. Still waiting for an answer to my email.

Presently, I am booked at the Husa Princesa for the first 3 nights, and the Emperador on the Gran Via for the second 3 nights.

Please let me know what I should do, as this is truly giving me a headache.

Because I am presently trying to maximize the use of the vouchers, I am now at 30, but 20 was better, but this is a vacation, so I am not going to quibble over $500.

Based on my present accommodations in Madrid, I changed the hotel in Barcelona to the Rivoli Las Ramblas to use all of the vouchers. I had a reservation at the Rafael Diagonal Port.

And, I've had someone write to me to suggest that I should not stay at the Melia Colon in Seville but change to the Westin Alfonso XIII. There is availability through Bancotel to make that change, but it will cost me 2 more vouchers, but it will work out okay, if I stay at the Husa Princesa for 6 nights (that is if the Husa Princesa will take vouchers for all 6 nights).

Also, the advice I was given in an email was to not stay in Cordoba and that I won't need two full days there. It was suggested that I stay in Seville the whole time, and only make a day trip to Cordoba for 1 day, and spend 3 full days sightseeing in Seville.

Lastly, I rechecked Air Europa's flight schedules and found out that there are flights from Granada to Barcelona, so I won't have to backtrack to Seville to catch the flight to Barcelona. That is very good news!

I am so confused!!! So, my question is what should I do? Should I stay at the Husa Princesa for 6 nights, or is it too far out of the way? Should I have 3 nights in 2 hotels in Madrid, go back to my original idea of the Tryp Capitol, or stay at the Intur Palacio San Martin for the first 3 nights, or 6 nights if they will accept the vouchers?

Should I stay two nights in Cordoba, or stay 4 nights in Seville and make a day trip to Cordoba? If I stay in Seville for 4 nights, should I stay at the Melia Colon or the Westin Alfonso III?

Also, should I stay at the Rivoli Las Ramblas or change the reservation back to the Rafael Diagonal Port?

I guess I am asking if my original selection of hotels and areas in the message above were awful?

You are the Spain experts, this is my first trip to Spain. I can give great advice for Prague and Boston, but I feel like I am drowning here. Monday, I am going to buy maps for each of these cities.

Anyway, as you can tell, I am now more confused than ever , and quite overwhelmed. I do appreciate your expertise and excellent advice and I look forward to your next post.

If I should not stay overnight in Cordoba (I'll make a daytrip there from Seville), and maximizing the Bancotel vouchers, this is what I have come up with:

3/14-3/20, 6 nights at the Tryp Capitol in Madrid, making day trips to Segovia, El Escorial, and Toledo (6 vouchers), 3 star hotel - train from Madrid to Seville

3/20-3/24, 4 nights at the Westin Alfonso XIII in Seville, making a day trip to Cordoba (12 vouchers), 5 star hotel - train from Seville to Granada

3/24-3/26, 2 nights at the Melia Granada in Granada (2 vouchers), 4 star hotel - fly from Granada to Barcelona

3/26-3/30, 4 nights at the Rivoli Las Ramblas in Barcelona (10 vouchers), 4 star hotel

This comes to a total of 30 vouchers or 6 checkbooks, using all of the vouchers. Also, this is only 4 hotel changes, instead of what I had before. This part, at least having fewer hotel changes makes more sense. Let me know if I have this right this time . This has certainly been an eye-opening learning experience!

From what I've read the temperature should be in the 60s during my trip, I'm guessing that this time period is considered either low season or shoulder season. Am I correct about the temperature and the season?

Please let me know if I've laid this out correctly. Booklady, I am following your advice about the Tryp Capitol -- you have been my best mentor, but I respect everyone's advice, but you have given me the best description of the area of the Gran Via, and you must know about my weakness for shoes.

Okay, I know that I can take trains everywhere from the cities I am staying in to all of the cities/towns I want to visit except El Escorial (I could be wrong here, but couldn't find information on www.renfe.es or www.travelinginspain.com/train.html so I guess that I will have to take the bus -- I did find a bus schedule!

I am going to rely on all of your expertise, and, I am a fast learner. Thanks!

Hi Lipstique,
I am sorry I am a bit tardy in answering your previous post.

Regarding the Trypp Capitol, I can only attest to its location, because I passed it many times and said to myself, next time I am staying at the Capitol. It is centrally located to the main sights. Have you done a search of MM Board for the Trypp Capitol to see what previous travelers that have stayed there have said?

I personally stayed at the Suecia and the HUSA Princessa, and highly recommend these two.

First the Suecia is located within walking distance (for me) to the Prado and Reina Sofia Museums and within walking distance (for me) from the Puerta del Sol and Plaza Mayor, plus it was next to a Renfe store, a few paces across the street and in a very safe area. My room was the same type as I would get at Best Western. The hotel had a nice Swedish style breakfast buffet, a restaurant, which I did not use, and a nice bar which was in full swing at around 1 p.m. when many Madrileños came to party.

Second the HUSA Princessa was a spectacular hotel near to the Plaza de España.You were treated like royalty, big soft, bath robes . The rooms are extremely large. Amenities include: large screen TV; a minibar stocked with every type of beverage; the bathroom provides you with all amenities you would wish, soap, shampoo, conditioner, shoe kit, sewing kit, & comb. For a fee you can have your hair done, nails, pedicure, and launder your clothes ( very expensive). They have a free gym, and have access to a complete restaurant and cafeteria. Across from the main lobby was the grandest ElCorte Ingles Ever! BUT,
it was indeed too far to walk to the center of Madrid. But the taxis were plentiuful and will take you there for 3-4 Euros. It is a grand hotel that you would find here in the U.S. like the Sheratons. Very safe and secure. I did notice that many American, US Air, and Delta flight crews stayed here. I recommend it as a nioce place to relax after a fun-filled day of sightseeing.

Shoes well you are coming to the right city. Shoes everywhere and what styles, from ultra feminine chic to very trendy Campers; what colors, every color of the rainbow! There are wonderful threads on this Board under shopping where many members have given specific advice about particular shoe stores. Purses too Lipstique are wonderful here! Prices are about the same as at home, but the quality is better.

Next time I am bringing an extra suitcase for the shoes and purses.

Hope this helps.

Booklady, thanks for taking time out on a Saturday during the summer to respond to me .

Maribel on the Fodor's board (she's a peach) has discouraged me from staying at the Tryp Capitol because she thinks the area is too noisy , and she described the area as Times Square. Maribel also recommended the Suecia and the Hotel Opera (which is a Best Western property). Per Bancotel's website, the Suecia only has availability for 1 night, and the Hotel Opera has available for 3 nights, and I am staying 6 nights. I have emailed both hotels and found that they have availability, but at the present time they are not accepting the Bancotel vouchers for the extra nights that I need. I will email them both again in December, January and February to see if they have high vacancy rates and if they will reconsider accepting the vouchers. If they do have high vacancy rates, I will try again to make reservations there using the vouchers. As I mentioned before, I think that from a hotel's perspective, an occupied room paid for with a voucher in a "non-availability" time period is still better than a vacant room. Otherwise, I am still keeping the reservation I have at the Tryp Capitol -- I really don't mind staying in an area that has the activity described as Times Square.

Other than that, I am finally set with my hotel reservations and don't intend to make any further changes.

I still need to find a flight from Granada to Barcelona. So far, my research shows that none of the airlines - Spanair, Air Europa, and Iberia fly that route directly. I can either take a connecting flight through Madrid, return to Seville and fly to Barcelona directly (but the flight departs at 9:00pm , or else return to Madrid by train and then take a flight from Madrid to Barcelona. I still have sometime to figure that out, but if you have suggestions, I would appreciate your sage advice.

Shoes and handbags , my two biggest weaknesses. Might as well change my monicker from Lipstique to Imelda Marcos. Well, it doesn't make sense to take another big empty roll bag with me, as Madrid is the first stop on my 16 day vacation in Spain, and I'm most likely, traveling alone, so I will have to schlep them around myself. Well, let me think about this ... if I use cabs to the train stations, I might be okay. I'm guessing that there must be something similar to a Mailboxes, Etc. in Madrid for me to ship my purchases to my office so I don't have to take them along with me on my sojourn. Otherwise, will the stores pack up my purchases and ship them back to the US?

I'm beginning to see that the savings on the hotels through Bancotel versus the hotels' advertised rack rates, will now be spent on shoes and handbags :o . Thank goodness for your advice about Bancotel.

Please, let's keep in mind that this is the Transportation forum. Hotel discussions should take place in the Hostels & Other Lodgings forum. Thanks!

Ooops! So sorry MadridMan!
Got carried away!