Hola chicos y chicas! This is my first post! I am from Caceres (Extremadura) but have been living in New York City (Upper West Side) for the past 10 years. I feel really lucky to be part of such a nice, good-hearted community (well...except for the handful of reactionary types). ANYWAY...It looks like there's a going to be an Iberia pilot strike this summer on selected dates. Check out today's edition of EL PAIS . Any insight, advice or nightmare stories? Is it easy to switch to Delta or Continental ? It looks like I'm flying from Barajas to JFK on one of those days. Thanks!

[ 06-08-2001: Message edited by: MadridMan ]

¡Hola jlramos! Welcome to the group!! It's always great to have Spaniards join the message board. And thank you for your information about the impending Iberia pilot's strike.

Saludos, MadridMan

Despite being the best paid pilots in Europe while working fewer hours than any of their colleagues, Iberia's pilots think they don't earn enough. In 1995 they earned around 15,000,000 pesetas a year. In 2001 they earn about 23,000,000 pesetas a year . That is, 8,000,000 pesetas more in just 5 years. What they are asking for now is 12% more for the "poor" salaries.

This strike is making Iberia loose 1,000,000,000 pesetas per day and is affecting thousands of customers (28,000 people were affected today according to the news reports).

By the way, the "average" salary in Spain is about 250,000 pesetas per month (note that I said "average". Most people here have much lower salaries). Iberia pilots earn nearly 2,000,000 pesetas per month. All people are wondering if it is fair to go on a strike to demand more money when they are among the best paid workers in Spain.

Regards,

Antonio

PS: If you are travelling with Iberia, check out their website for more information about the strike. Iberia.es

[ 06-19-2001: Message edited by: Antonio ]

The pilots strike has hit the UK according to today's reports. Most flights will be hit on the routes from London Heathrow to Madrid and Barcelona. The report says that a series of 10 strikes are planned for the summer.

It hit the news today in Canada. It doesn't give me any comfort since i leave next week and return July 16. I'm doing the London to Madrid route. But from what I hear, this has become an annual summer saga.

They make 23 million a year? That is more than the prime minister makes. And MEEEEE! Bastards!

There's a couple of things I want from an airline. Happy pilots and happy mechanics. If they're happy, they don't go tearing around the sky like a kamikaze pilot, and they actually "repair the problems" on a plane.

The last thing I want a flight attendant to say after I ask them how long it takes to fly from Chicago to Madrid is; "I don't know, we've never made it yet."

Actually, $120K isn't that big of bucks for good pilots. As for less work hours, I buy that as well. The last thing we need is a few pilots who fall asleep behind the wheel... if you know what I mean.

If the flight costs me $25 more, and I know the pilot wants to stay alive to enjoy his new Porsche... hell... I'm tickled pink.

Wolf (Who hates flying with pilots that are frowning.)

Iberia has a roundtrip special Paris-Madrid for 57Euro. Too bad, because I was plotting to fly to Paris rather than directly to Madrid because it's cheaper, then fly to Madrid via Iberia. Oh, well...

[originally posted by nutkin on 07-06-2001 09:11 PM]

I talked to an Iberian airline agent today. He told me that the strike is for every Tuesday through August and that Tuesday travelers should contact Iberia the thursday prior to their trip in order to be taken care of. He was very matter of fact and said that fliers may be offered other flights from other airlines but may also be asked to fly on another day.
--------------------

Ian Williams

[NOTE: I have edited the previous message because the strike takes place on Tuesdays and not on Mondays. Be in touch with your travel agent because pilots are threatening with more days of strike]

[ 07-07-2001: Message edited by: Antonio ]

As Antonio, I can't understand such savage strike (think it is in summer, where Iberia has the most of its flights). They are very well payed people, so it is not understandable to go to strike to claim a 12% increase of salary.

They are doing a lot of damage to the tourism and to the customers :-(

Anyway, they are going to strike on July's tuesdays and August's mondays.

Regards.

I disegree with Wolf, if you consider that life in Spain is 2 to 2,5 times cheaper than in the USA, he should consider wether 240K $ or 300K $ is good enough for them. Besides they are given free accomodation, paid eating at first class restaurants and money for their dressing expenses (hand-made) that in the old times I was told was about 5K$.

Aniway, I think the wouldn't like to die even if they earned half of all that.

Bye

Ignacio,

Pilots are paid on an Internationally competitive basis, generally not on a home nation average wage scale. The rates that pilots from other nations get is generally where the Iberia pilots should fall, and they are below the average at this time.

ElGato

Regarding the pilots, officially the data are the following:

-iberia pilots are the best paid in Europe excepting, Air France's.

-Productivity is among the lowest in Europe.

-They dont' need to be paid acording standards as long as their union totally blocks hiring pilots from anywhere else excepting their "chosen".

- The pilots are trying to protect their privileges, before the company really strats working as the private company is now.

Plus IBERIA owns most of the airport slots in Spain, so in case of a pilot strike all sapnish population is held as hostage (in a lot of routes there is no choice, switching companies is not possible .The influence it has on business in Spain is very deep, not to tell about the devastion it causes on turism (the main industry in the country).

Nevertheless this time it is an "organized strike". Iberia it is one day a week, and "minimal services" are beeing performed by the pilots to perfection, because IBERIA is cancelling the flights not protected by the minimal servcies. In practice, all flights that are not cancelled leave on schedule!!!!.The company is mainly losing money due to

It looks like negotiations have broken off between pilots & management of Iberia. The pilots union (SEPLA) says they are now planning additional strike days beyond those previously announced. It's a shame that in this peak tourist season, the pilots and management seem to have hardened their positions!

The pilots are still behaving like in the times of the old monopoly. But the company is not state owned any longer and they will have to start behaving like professionals in a company that has to compete to survive.

-One of the unacceptable conditons for the pilots, is the fact that the company wants to make salary increases related to company profits, so avoiding situations in which Iberia's balance sheet in in red and pilot salaries are rocketing.

- Nevertheless ,people in SEPLA must realize that when "all" spanish population is against them and favouring every possible of punishment directed to them, is a dangerous game what they are playing.

- Even more, IBERIA doesn't need to exist, the company can be killed by the pilots and our market will be easily colonized by BA, Air France, ....

I totally agree with nativo.

I'm trying to understand the concept you are talking about.

That the people can punish the pilots of Iberia.

In a democracy, the issue is between the company which is owned by stockholders, and the union, which represents the pilots. They have to resolve the issues, and if recourse is needed, it goes through the courts.

The concept that the people have the right to punish them reminds me of the Franco regime, or a new direction that would be towards communism instead of a democracy. I find that a little disturbing.

ElGato

Democracy and capitalism are concepts that go together. And the basis of capitalism is competence.

These pilots not only are a monopolistic syndicate that controls a good (air transport), but also have supported and so, a strong influence in the train drivers Union. They have such strength that have converted the spanish people into their hostages. In competence (market rules), the firm could bring workers from another countries/ companies, ..., but it would take months, may be one year to be able to drive (if different) a new model of airplane or learn itineraries and the way to work with new airports, ...

Besides, and mainly, this would give them time enough to organize astrike like this, that would endanger the survival of the very company itself, as they are doing right now.
They don't need to be flexible, because they are in control, they don't need to negotiate. If they lost their jobs, they could find others in some other country's airlines.

Besides, they are using "huelga de celo", which means that they are introducing as many obstacles as possible to work (suddenly flling ill, ...). It is obviously this behaviour the only that could be punished, and probably will be if it is proved, retiring some licenses.

However, same as when Microsoft buying legally firms became a menace for competence, and had to be divided (we'll see), I think this monopoly has to be weakened in some way through law or competence tribunal sentences, to protect the people.

Ignacio,

Unions are monopolies. Like it or not, that's exactly what they are. The re-dress must be through the courts in a democracy, unless the pilots are linked to the government, which was the case in the U.S. when Reagan had all the air traffic controllers who were on strike replaced.

Even in Reagan's case, the issue ended up in courts to determine whether or not he had the right to do what he did.

As for Microsoft, the re-dress has been in the court, not in the hands of the people. It has nothing to do with whether or not the American public wants Microsoft to be broken up or not.

You mention tribunal sentencing. Can you explain that to me? Is that through the courts or by edict?

You mention competence. I don't understand what that would entail either. From what I've seen in major business throughout the world, the only people that the CEOs answer to are their stockholders and the board of directors. As for everyone else, they are nothing more than tools to make money for the elite. But, that's capitalism at it's best, and worst at the same time.

ElGato

The transformation of state monopolies into quoted companies is a complex enough matter to discuss for ages with another approach. In fact, public opinion is one of the variables on the negotiation.

Sanctions are always decided in court, but in a case on National Emergency with all public oppinion in favour the can be quite neat (Reagan style). In fact this is why the strike is not total. In the last strike they cut of Spain from the outside world (IBERIA had 90% of all in spain flights) at their will, plus inmensely damaging the economics of the country just because they wanted to have the same decision power as the stake holders one the company went public....And it really was kind of emergency the only the failure of a public service can create.

Nevertheless I do not think that easy words such as franquismo or comunism are applicable in today's Spain. Following that line of thought, the power in democracy resides on people, and if a referendum was done on the subject....

ElGato:

In Spain there are some so called "courts" that judge like if they were really that, a court. But they are, for the issue they judge, the highest level of decision in the Administration body.

Of course, may be that a minister could influence them, but if it was public, it would be very negative for the Government, since they are supposed to be independent.

I don't like them, for they are some kind of cheat - People think that this or that matter are really being judged by an independent court, and it is neither of both words.

But, after all, you can always go to Court if you are not satisfied with its answers. The problem is that it may cost a lot of money, since many of the courts you would have to ¿plea? are high-level courts, like National Audience, Supreme Court, or CE courts. Not always, depends on which matter we are speaking.

There is a "Tribunal de Defensa de la Competencia", which was, in its origins, created to protect the public from too powerful mergings, forbidden commercial policies, and so on.

After all, to an aviation company, work is one of the inputs, a cost like it is the price of the plane. If they are to be protected from wrong policies like dumping or from "oligopolistic"(Does this word exist in English?) practices in one of their inputs, why not in the other.

I am a worker, and I think (like Law Experts in Spain use to point out) that workers are the weak part in a work contract, and that they must be protected from abuse (up to a limit, this is a social-capitalist, but a capitalist society, in the end).

But these workers really have such a power, because they cannot be replaced, that the may send the Company to have losses. This has been a losing company for many years, when it was a public company, and now, when it has just become profitable, they are demanding such rises that really endanger the corporate results. And they are the second best paid in absolute terms in Europe, and the best, with difference, if you consider the cost of living.

I have been surfing the Net to give you the data, but I cant find the yearly ones. I think they had profits, but not very relevant in percentege on revenues, thus, an important rise of one of its major costs (which was already in very high level) could send it to Sabena (Belgium) position, Delta, Aerolineas Argentinas, ..., and so many airlines in difficulties may be because of a different concrete reason, but for the same global one: income is lower than expense in the long time. http://www.invertia.com/empresas/empresa.asp?idtel=RV011IBERIA
http://www.invertia.com/noticias/noticia.asp?idnoticia=308422
http://www.invertia.com/empresas/noticias/noticia.asp?idDoc=359217&idtel=RV011IBERIA

Sorry that they are in spanish.

And the quarter results, as you can see, show losses of about 500M$ in profits, growing (the losses) a 36% (also because of fuel cost).

If we are speaking of it typical bussiness (carrying people in planes) it comes to about 700M$, being an 11% worse.

However, they may have (and I think they did) had profits last year, and they could have had this year (if costs did not grow too much), for summer is the moment when they really sell. What do you think will be this years' results? After losing flights and prestige, and, even worse, paying the most expensive workers in Europe.

What is the latest with this pilots strike??? I fly into Barcelona on Sept 4th. Does any one know of specific dates or do they just strike at random? I have a call into my travel agent but no reply yet.

At this moment it is not prepared any strike in September (as far as I know), but that doesn't mean it couldn't be one. If I were you I will confirm it when the date aproaches.

In my last post there were two wrong data, losses were 50M$ (not 500M$), and 70M$ (not 700).
Sorrry, it was an error.

Just wanted to thank the board for this thread, which I saw prior to my trip: I was in a travel agency in Salamanca booking a roundtrip flight between Madrid and Barcelona, and she was all set to give us our Iberia tickets, with the return on TUESDAY, July 3. At which point I said, "But isn't that the next day for the strike?" And she promptly remembered that it was and changed us to AirEuropa. Thanks board, or I might still be sleeping on the floor in the Aeropuerto de Barcelona!