In March I will be going to Madrid. I was wondering if anybody had taken the train from Madrid to Gibraltar. I would like to take the ferry (or whatever) across for probably a day trip in Morocco. Can anybody recommend or disuade?

It's possible to take a train (overnight sleeper for 6.700 Pts or the 08.15 Talgo - 6 hours - for 9.300 Pts www.renfe.es ) to Algeciras, which is across the bay from Gibraltar and to take a ferry from there to Tangier or Ceuta. There are plenty of day trips available with guided tour of the city, lunch (with belly dancer!) and ferry included for about $35. Or do it yourself, of course, but get a guide as soon as you get there, or you will be constantly pestered by all and sundry which could spoil your day.

In my opinion Gibraltar is a scruffy overcrowded place, which could be worth a visit just to say you've been there, as obviously there is a big history to the place. There are caves, a cable car going up the rock with the famous barbary apes half way up, but leaving that aside it is a place looked on by most people as one they wouldn't go back to! Hmm, as I say, my opinion. I wonder what the opinion is of others who have visited the bit of rock which we Brits wouldn't mind giving up now, but will only happen if the majority of Gibraltarians (Spanish speaking!!) agree!

First and ONLY time I went to Gibralter was a student bumming aroung around Europe for a couple of years .... way back then the Rock was way over-rated. In all honesty, I don't think I have ever met anyone who has said "I want to go back to Gibralter". Last time I was in Sevilla we had met a Canadian couple who made (and I quote) the "mistake of actually spending a night there". Need I say more? Take a look at the rock and stay in Spain!!!!

Puna, how/when did you go to Gibraltar? By train? How was the trip?

Saludos, MadridMan

Thumb out and hitch-hiking was my main form of transportation! Like I said - it was a while ago. Seriously - anyone thinking about taking a car would be well advised not to - the Canadian couple I mentioned early said driving was he** on Gibralter - the primary sight-seeing road is very steep and harrowing. Re getting there - would think Algeciras would be about the best hopping off spot ....

You're right about the driving in Gib. It's very narrow in places and not worth the worry. The best way to see the place is by parking up in Spain, and then walk across and get a taxi on the Gibraltar side, as the drivers make good guides and don't rip the tourists off in general.

Unfortunately it's that time of the year again, when we make our dreaded trip there! Why? The shops are great for Christmas gifts and food, although the strength of the pound against the peseta makes it comparatively expensive, compared to a few years ago for the likes of myself, whose income is in pesetas.

It will be an hour's queue to get across the border and at least the same to get out, but there are some things we can't buy in Spain that we would normally miss at Christmas, so we make the effort!

By the way, Puna, I saw from another post you live in Boston. I've only been to the USA twice and the last time was in Boston a couple of years ago and since then I can't wait to get back there. Brilliant city! Do you want to swap houses sometime? (He says, only half-joking!)

Anchovy Front - ANY DAY - ANY TIME - IS TOMORROW TO SOON? Let me know when you want to visit Boston -I'll swap houses or find you a place gratis (I live in a great location but after owning houses - I feel the apartment is small). You're right - Boston is a good city; what time of the year where you here?
What's the weather like today in Malaga (you're in that area I believe) - Boston is verging on snow - is there any remote possibility you would like a house-guest soon?

[This message has been edited by Puna (edited 11-30-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Puna (edited 11-30-2000).]

Hey, don't you want to come to L.A? Stay in my furnitureless apartment?

Why don't we all just go meet over in MAlaga? I am sure you won't mind a few hundred guests, right Anchovy?

Hi folks-
Those on another thread here have me almost convinced to head south during my trip to Spain next week. Assuming I'm based out of Sevilla or Malaga, would visiting Gibraltar take an entire day? Would it be worth it? I speak as a US/UK hybrid who has some interest in seeing the remnants of the Empire. But if it's just a rock with monkeys on it . . .

Cheers-

Mark

Wow Puna! I may just hold you to that! It is exactly two years to the day when my wife and I arrived at Logan International. We only had four nights but loved every minute! What's more, I'd won the trip (including business class flights!) in a competition on our local English language radio station in Marbella! It was c-c-c-old, but we didn't care - it made a change! The weather here today is a bit cloudy and about 20º and a couple of days ago it was 26º and tourists were on the beaches.

Nicole, I've started putting tents up in the local park to cope with the influx of visitors!

Mark, do not go to Gibraltar!! (The tourist office will send the apes after me no doubt, but when time is at a premium, don't waste it!)

MadridMan, sorry for sliding off the topic! Won't do it again!

Anchovy Front - You won the tickets, huh? Fill me in a bit on the English language radio station - I spent a lot of years in radio and tv from on air news reporting to sales to writing. directing & producing commercials ( multi-talented) Sound like I'm looking for employment - any kind - did you say those tents needed someone to clean??? When you and your wife were in Boston did you get to the North End (Paul Revere and 1 if by land, etc.)? Seeing as I am getting somewhat serious about swapping houses and/or opening doors to follow board members - thats the area I live in -

I'll post something about the radio on the Spain Related Media forum, Puna, so I don't disrupt the original thread here too much!

I'm trying to think where you mean by North End. I remember we stayed in Back Bay in an elegant old hotel called the Copley Plaza, I think?

You're right about Back Bay, elegant and Copley Plaza - the radio station came through with a quality promotion. The North End lacks the elegance but is filled with history and charm. Did you get to Fanieul Hall and Quincy Market? If so, the North End is just ocean-side of the "historic" buildings mentioned. It's where Paul Revere lived and rang the famous bell - "one if by land/two if by sea" - Old North Church, lots of Italian restaurants, etc. Does that help at all in orienting you to the area?
BTW Thanks also for posting the radio info in a separate thread

[This message has been edited by Puna (edited 12-01-2000).]

Talking about getting TOTALLY off the subject! I had asked for a bit of guidance and ended up in the middle of some intimate chat. Unfortunately, I am still wondering about the topic of my post! Can we maybe discuss what one would expect IF they took a day trip to Morocco?????

I personally think Morocco deserves more than a day, but if that's all you have, you can either take a tour or do it on your own. If you decide to take a tour, you won't have to worry about getting harassed but they will occupy your every moment. There will be no time for meandering. You will be only allowed to shop in the few stores they take you to. The guides get a cut on anything you buy so they take you to mostly high-end carpet stores. If you're going to Morocco for the pleasure of shopping and wandering the marketplace- I wouldn't suggest a tour. But be warned, someone will be approaching you to be your guide from the time you leave the ferry to the time you board the ferry. If you just want to basically see the city and have a meal without being harassed, take the tour.

I apologize! Is it at all possible for you to spend more than one day in Morocco? Marrakesh (sp?), Fez and Rabat as well as the coast are well worth seeing. I believe someone suggested ensuring a guide to accompany you if you head into the older quarters - a very good suggestion. Morocco is beautiful - possibly a bit intimidating unless you're comfortable with traveling and feeling "foreign" - well worth a visit. If you have only the one day - go and enjoy!

No, I'm sorry, mjames8258, it's my fault! I tried to answer your question and then got sidetracked and I hang my head in shame...

I have to also eat humble pie about knocking Gibraltar. It's a while since I was there and it has really improved beyond recognition. They are making big efforts there and it should be recognised. So sorry to Gibraltar too!

I have always wanted to go to Marrakesh, and one way it can be done is to take the train, (the Marrakesh Express?), which used to leave Tangier at about 10 pm and travel overnight. The nightlife in the square in the city is supposed to be extraordinary, with jugglers, fire-eaters, snake charmers, acrobats and storytellers all coming out when dusk falls and you can eat from an amazing array of food stalls. One day I'll get there!

If you are going on a day trip, then Nevado has said exactly what everyone who has ever been has told me. Sorry again!

For all you Marrakech 'wanabees:' The name of the main square in Marrakech is Djema al Fna, which translates to 'Gate of the Sun' (Puerta del Sol, for you Spain-o-philes). It has always been a: 'one of these days I am going to try to establish a connection' type of thing for me.

I visited there several times but the snake charmers were not allowed on the Square. One had to go to the rooftop terrace of the Cafe de Paris to see them. And when one dumps his basket of snakes at your feet, it's pucker time.

I'll have to disagree with the folks who warn others away from Gibraltar- it was definitely one of the high points on our trip. The taxi tour is recommended (but bloody expensive for two people- 38 quid).

Definitely park in La Linea- the queue getting in and out with your car is horrendous- Spain should be ashamed of itself for that. If I had the time, I would have filed a complaint with the EU (as so conveniently provided for by the Gibraltarian gov't- no love lost on either side, that's clear ).

All that said, I'd doubt it would be much more than a day trip. Main Street seems a real zoo, but you need to traverse it to get to most places of interest. The entire thing can be walked (and really, hasn't everyone wanted to walk across a runway before?), but if you want to go up the Rock, a taxi is recommended.

And yes, the apes were there- cheeky fellows who have no problem jumping on you if they think you've something to eat. Even try to dig in your pocket unless you point out there's nothing worth eating in there.