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#45130 - 05/09/05 12:20 PM written accents and more
richie Offline
Member

Registered: 06/27/04
Posts: 39
Loc: barcelona
Maybe I am wrong, but I was always taught that spanish words that end in "mente" never require and accent, seeing that the stress is over the next to last "e". I saw the word "íntegramente" written twice in a magazine with an accent written over the "i". Is this correct?
I must admit that when I came to Spain (Barcelona) I thought I would be coming to where the spanish would be at it´s purest. I´ve actually seen more use of "spanglish" here than in many parts of south america/carrribean. The spanglish here is used by people who haven´t even been to an english speaking country, which surprises me even more. At times I have asked people (very nicely) how they say spanglish words in spanish...they tell me that it is spanish. For example, I´ve been told "hacer running" is spanish. "The word ´running´isn´t spanish", I said. "Oh yes it is", they replied.

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#45131 - 05/09/05 01:08 PM Re: written accents and more
Murdy Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 11/14/04
Posts: 314
Loc: Madrid
No, it's correct. "íntegro" is word where the stress falls on the third to last syllable. This is called an "esdrújula" which, by the way, is an "esdrújula" itself! These words always have a written accent. Another example is "rápido".
When the adjective is turned into an adverb with the suffix "-mente", the written accent remains. Thus, "íntegramente" and "rápidamente". The word actually has two stresses. IN-te-gra-MEN-te.
This is also true of any adjective that uses an accent. "ágil" becomes "ágilmente". "Fácil" is "fácilmente".

As for the Spanglish...well to begin with, if you're going to Barcelona expecting to find only the purest Castilian Spanish, you've picked the wrong place; but not because of English. Catalan is still widely spoken and its grammar certainly has an effect on Spanish grammar. The same thing happens in Galicia. That means that in general the Spanish there is perfectly fine but there are a lot of dialectual oddities due to the influence of Catalan. In some cases, it's just plain non-standard Spanish.

And sure there is a some influence from English. I've never heard "hacer running" but I'm glad they've finally updated the expression, because in Madrid they still say "hacer footing". It's a little absurd because there's a perfectly fine word in Spanish called "correr".

The "-ing" is the source of a number of words in Spain these days. My favorite is the one for bungee jumping "hacer puenting", from "puente" the word for bridge. I think it's one of the most creative linguistic inventions I've heard in a long time.

So, you're right. There is a bit of Spanglish here and there. It's only logical given English's presence in the world these days.
But since English has borrowed more words than any other language I can think of, I don't see a serious problem when a word or two sneaks in.

Ciao (by the way, a common way of saying goodbye in Galicia! smile )
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#45132 - 05/09/05 04:17 PM Re: written accents and more
richie Offline
Member

Registered: 06/27/04
Posts: 39
Loc: barcelona
Wow!, I didn´t realize all that about the accented words with "mente". Thanks for the lesson. I still seem really impressed by the amount of english usage here. The other day I stopped counting at 50 english references I overheard in the streeet. I can understand if the word has some culturalistic meaning only/mostly to english speaking cultures, but like "running", there are plenty of spanish words. Sexy-apariencia sensual, manager-gerente, marketing-merdadeo......there is a whle lot. In south america people tend to know that these are english words, where here the explanation I get is that they are spanish words. Quite surprising to me.

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#45133 - 05/10/05 06:55 AM Re: written accents and more
JasMadrid Offline
Member

Registered: 02/25/05
Posts: 139
Loc: Madrid
Richie, I don't know what kind of people do you ask, but everyone here knows those are english words. And yes, you are right, there are lots of spanish words which could have been used instead of the english ones (although I wouldn't know how to say "marketing" in spanish, "merdadeo" doesn't exist, and "mercadeo" is not exactly the same thing).

Anyway, some people are worried about the issue, but I am not. Most people use only a number of english words, and I don't think it's so bad. After all we have many wonderful words originally taken from arabic which are now part of our culture, some not so wonderful taken from german (like "guerra" - "war") and lots of words taken from many languages, including french and english.

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#45134 - 05/10/05 09:10 AM Re: written accents and more
Fernando Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 07/05/01
Posts: 1551
Loc: Madrid, Spain
By the war, those words are not "esdrújulas" but "sobreesdrújulas" wink which is more or less the same. But you are right in how they are accented.

Most english speakers don't realize that some words they understand in spanish don't come from english but from lathyn!

As for the examples:
sexy=Con atractivo físico (approved by the Royal Spanish Academy)
manager=gerente, director, gestor (not approved by the Royal Spanish Academy)
marketing=mercadotecnia (approved by the Royal Spanish Academy)

Fernando

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#45135 - 05/11/05 08:54 AM Re: written accents and more
richie Offline
Member

Registered: 06/27/04
Posts: 39
Loc: barcelona
I thought that there were no spanish words that end in "mente" having accents, perhaps I was confused with the "dad" ending of words. like "piedad" or some other ones. Anyone know if there are any "dad"ending words that have written accents?

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#45136 - 06/07/05 01:11 PM Re: written accents and more
quique Offline
Member

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 52
Loc: alcala de henares
Íntegramente is correct. You must put the accent only when the word without -mente has it.

(has it is correct?)

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#45137 - 06/08/05 01:24 PM Re: written accents and more
Murdy Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 11/14/04
Posts: 314
Loc: Madrid
You're right Fernando, I wasn't being very clear there.

íntegro is "esdrújula"
íntegramente is "sobresdrújula" (I'm not sure if that's spelled right, but what a word!)
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#45138 - 06/12/05 09:57 AM Re: written accents and more
Rubia Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/01/02
Posts: 43
Richie,
I don't know what latin american countries you have visited, but from my experience there is a lot more English used there than in Spain. They have taken many Spanish words and turned them English. One that I particularly can't accept is "carro" for car. From my experience, Spain has the most "pure" Spanish than any other Spanish-speaking country. Also the other poster is correct, if you want true Spanish do not go to Barcelona, they speak alot of Catalan there and also a lot of English for tourists.

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#45139 - 06/16/05 08:07 PM Re: written accents and more
Murdy Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 11/14/04
Posts: 314
Loc: Madrid
While it's tempting to say that the purest Spanish is spoken in Spain (and in Valladolid according to the Spaniards), it can be a matter of debate for a number of reasons.

If we put aside the heavy influence of American English on South America, which is considerable, South Americans actually speak in an incredibly rich Spanish. A lot of everyday words they use would be considered almost snobbishly cultured here in Spain. I've heard South Americans with seemingly humble backgrounds speak with a vocabulary that would put a lot of Spaniards to shame. To them, they are just ordinary words, and in Spain, they sound odd.

A lot of this has to do with the Atlantic Ocean! Over the centuries, many words and expressions that were common hundreds of years ago have survived in South America but disappeared in modern Castilian Spanish. A perfect example is "platicar", the especially Mexican word for "Charlar" or "Hablar". Mexicans use it every day, in Spain you find it in books like Don Quijote. Another example is the Argentinian "vos" instead of "tú". Could you argue that South Americans in a way speak a purer form of Spanish? You bet you could, but it's sort of irrelevant, because languages constantly change and neither the Spanish nor the Colombians speak the way the language was spoken three hundred years ago.

The same thing happens with American English. The British love to make fun of us for the way we speak, but what they don't realize is that certain things we say are actually older and purer than the way they say them. "Gotten" is a good example. The British say "got", but the American way is the original form (just like forgotten). They say we're saying it wrong, but it's the other way around. They use the less pure form, and they have the nerve to laugh at us. It drives me up the wall!! wink
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