No matter that I agree this is a safe country in general teerms, there is some danger in some areas and specifically to certain persons: tourists. You must know.

Yesterday a canadian tourist called Josephine E., 37, was stabbed in her throat (a small injury though) in the Huertas street, at 3.00 p.m., while walking by. A guy tried to grab her purse, but she resisted.

On Saturday, three northern african guys robbed two North Amerians in Gran Vía. One of the tourists was injured by a gun. The police captured one of the robbers.

Sorry these things happen, and that tourists are the preferred prey, but, anyway, I recommend in these cases, first not to carry too much money on you, and then, give it and avoid further problems.

Source: Madridymas newspaper 08/14/2001.

[ 08-14-2001: Message edited by: Ignacio ]

My recommendations:

I recommend a kung fu chop to the head on any kook who tries to go for your "stuff".

I do NOT recommend heading off the Gran Via into one of those nutty side streets at any time after dusk.

I do recommend being much larger than the average Spaniard in order to be a less-likely target!!!

The phrase "yo tengo herpes" is an effective kook repellent as well.

CaliBasco [Who is at once larger than the average Spaniard, doesn't know kung fu, and no tiene herpes]

CaliBasco,

I would have said that fifteen years ago, when I was a bit more romantic :p .

I am standard sized spanish, but phisically strong, and karate trained, but I would prefer not to face a knife or gun unless necessary.

Size is not very important unless you know well how to fight. It is easy to beat big not trained people. There is an expression I always remembered when I faced bigger opponents at the tatami: 'The bigger they are, the higher they fall from'.

I once read an article by a North American tourist in Peru, who was extremely surprised when he was attacked by a crowd of nine to twelf years old kids (under the usual measures because of bad feeding) who hold him over their heads, and while he was twisting and trying to reach the floor, he was freed from his wallet, camera, clock, ... and they were gone.


[ 08-16-2001: Message edited by: Ignacio ]

>I do NOT recommend heading off the Gran Via
>into one of those nutty side streets at any
>time after dusk.

Oops, that´s where my hostel is, Calle de Fuencarral, sidestreet of Gran Via.
So far it seemed safe, always crowded, well illuminated, and I the weird people that walk there don't scare me. Besides, in general most homosexual males are 'soft-handed' so Im not afraid to be robbed with force by them as well.

My friend did got stolen from her bag in full daylight in the bar 'Café & Té' when it was very quiet. Compliments for the robber, we didn't see anything nor anyone and were amazed when the bag was gone.

Brinkie

There's an old adage; "Discretion is the better part of valor." When it comes to getting robbed, discretion is the key word to remember. The majority of people who get hurt while being mugged, are those who resist.

Ignacio has a point. "The bigger they are, the higher they fall from." In the U.S., we say; "The bigger they are the harder they fall." The only problem in both instances is where they land, and what they do after they get back on their feet... Chances are the aren't going to be in a real friendly mood, and if they are armed, you can expect that you may well be injured seriously, or killed.

I guess it's up to each individual as to how much money, or what they own, is an acceptable loss. The thing is... don't put a low price tag on your life. If you're going to risk death, at least make sure the payoff for survival is high enough to face the danger. Above all, don't let your libido, or ego, be the reason you were maimed by someone. It just isn't a fair price.

Wolf (That said, I do know Karate, and several other Japanese words... Do you think that will protect me?)

Well, these areas are usually safe too, but you never know, ...

You may very well stay for a year and not have problems at all. But you could also have them the very first day.

About ten years ago - same kind of people in the streets - I was taking part in a process for personnel selection in my firm, which lasted five/six months.

I stayed for three/four days a week in these hostels and nothing happened nor I felt in any risk, but the last day we were invited to a very good restaurant, and I wore my best suit. I was tried to robe in the sunset (winter, so about 5 or 6 p.pm.), outside the Gran Via Metro station. I had an argument with him, he spat in my face, and I lost my temper and run after him (who suddenly realised he had gone too far). I hit him in his head, and he fell down holding me, so I fell too. When I got up I saw I had a long cut along my pants, knife style. So I got really furious both because the trousers were new and expensive and for he had wanted to cut ME. I kicked kim until the police (unfortunately too soon) held me. He looked like a drug addict.

[ 08-17-2001: Message edited by: Ignacio ]

As every big city, Madrid has crime, robbery, junks and beggars. But of all the cities I have been, I have never seen so many homeless people sleeping in the streets and begging for money. Nor have I seen so many police officers and public cleaners.

The government of the city spends many many pesetas on making the city as popular and amazing as possible so that every tourist and visitor opens his mouth and has to say "Waauw" (which I often did) and every inhabitant will be proud living in the best city del mundo. Museums like reina Sofia and Thyssen, roads like Grand Via and the Catedral de la Almuneda are build, well, "because capitals and metropoles have to have them, no?"
In August many public works are done, to perfectionate teh monuments, buildings and roads and every day (dont know if it is all the year, but at least in July and August) the streets and squares around the centre are cleaned with water.
And why with water? Because every morning the streets smells like urine and because most people dont use trash bins to throw away their stuff (for example the flyers for bars and restaurants).

Don't get me wrong, I love the city and will try to come back next year. But I can't overlook some structural problems.
Why are there almost no public toilets/urinoirs? Is there any program/institute/foundation that looks after the homeless/junks? What about tickets for parking on wrong places (on zebras, in turns, double parking, ..)?

A friend (Madrileño) told me that after living for so many years in dictatorship some people could not/can not deal with the new freedoms and now there is a bit of a culture where laws, traffic signs and rules of behavior are too often ignored.

Maarten

PS Yesterday I put two pastellas in the refrigirator at work, this morning they are gone! :-( Can you believe it, there is a lock on the fridge and you can only get the key at the secretary!

Brinkie:

I agree with most of what you say. However, streets are wiped with water the whole year, and it is not because of the urine-like smell you can find at some, where vagabonds inhabit or drunks pass by, they do it this way because it is faster - saves a lot of money in public cleaners. Take a look at it when they do it and then guess how much would it take it to these slow-paced workers.

I don't know why people throw their stuff in the streets, but I will tell you my reason.

In the old times there were few cars in Spain, and parking in any street was not a real problem. Now, every family has at least one. The city has grown, and the only thing the Town Hall did was to forbid parking, in order to have more space for cars and peasants. Many people - I among them - believe that, if they are taking these places from us (where we had the right to park until then), they should build FREE parking places to replace them.

But they have built extremely expensive (for spanih pockets) parkings, and have created a colleting-oriented tow 'service' that takes care that they are full, helped by the town's regulations forbiding park anywhere. They charge 21.000 average each time they tow your car plus the fine.

As a way to protest, although I feel very embarrassed while doing it, I throw litter every time I can, in the streets. If I am paying a lot of money, they may very well pay more cleaners with it. I feel very relieved doing this.

As an example I will tell you that I once lived in an area where you could not find free parking not even after a 30 minutes' search, which I used to do. In despair, sometimes I parked in second row, or close to a corner, .., One month they took my car four times (then they charged about 25.000 each time, plus fine 10.000), and it was a real problem for my (then) lean budget.

But try to make them come when there is a car in second row of yours! They won't unless they are crossing that area "collecting the car taxes".

Anyway, I did not ask for the flyers I find at my car's windshield. It is putting them there what should be prevented. I am not to clean what THEY litter.

There are few public toilets because they are not needed, since the spaniards go to bars or cafeterias when they need to. These places need to have by law. I have been to public toilets in this and other countries, and I couldn't stand the smell.

There are several foundations caring about beggars besides of the Catholic Church, but the ones tou see at the streets are the ones who reject being there because they don't want to reach home at a certain hour or depend on anybody.

Did you know that some beggars get more that 20.000 a day? This is a reason too. Some groups of usually romanian gypsies 'work' on it because of this.

The fact that the police does not make them move is because people consider - in my opinion they are wrong - that it is a bad thing to expulse that poor unfortunates outside the city. Did you read all the noise about those africans living in the streets in Barcelona, when they were pressed tomove by the police?

We spanish are not 100% law-abiding people, we many times act acording to what we believe fair no matter it may be against the law (a bit like Don Quijote).

I do not doubt that you have been stolen yous pasteles, but it depends on the people you are working with. In my office we are about 70 people, with one only fridge. Nobody marks his/her food, and everybody finds it intact. In fact, sometimes you find it rotten because its owner forgot, and nobody touched it for weeks/months.

[ 08-17-2001: Message edited by: Ignacio ]

This is getting off the thread topic, but I didn't mind the litter as much as I did the dog waste everywhere. I live in Chicago where litter is everwhere. But you don't see dog waste everywhere. In fact you are fined for it. Actually, people will assault you verbally if you don't clean up after your pet.

That is very true. People are lazy to carry the dog far to a place where it can defecate in the fields, and (I wonder if) they consider it degrading to pick the animal's waste.

Town council tried to make them aware, and there are fines, but policemen don't fine people for that. I think until they do, it will go like that. In Spain, the social pressure for doing sth. wrong or anti-social, doesn't work, for if you dare to reproach things like smoking or dog's waste, or whatever you can be told tomind your own bussiness, insulted, or, in extreme cases, after an argument, punched in the nose, so people shuts up.