For all you Spanish experts: I've been reading a lot about the problems in the Basque Country and Cataluna. It seems that both have problems with separatists. Do you think that either region will ever split from Spain or do you think it's a remote possibility? I would hate to see Spain split up but sometimes when I read about the strong nationalist feelings, I wonder if it could happen? Are these separatists just loud minorities or do they represent the mainstream??

Hi!

I don't think so. Spain has always been a "commonwealth" of provinces.
The tribes (Celts, Iberians, Tartessos, Greeks, etc) had already divided the territory. When the Romans came they did the same unifying the territory.

When the German tribes occupied the penninsula they established several kingdoms too (Goths, Suevi, Vandals, in fact, the name Al-Andalus is how the muslims called the Land of the Vandals).

The muslims established their own "taifas" (kingdoms) and so did the Christians (Castille, Navarre, Aragon...). When the Reconquista was finished, Spain didn't exist as such. It was Castille & Leon, Navarre and the Crown of Aragon the most important countries.

The Hasburg family governed the whole Union, but the territories kept their custmos, languages and laws.

The Borbons tried to centralized the country in the 18th century. A big mistake.

We've been like that for centuries, but the problems appeared with the end of the Empire and the Borbons' policy.
What they're trying to do now is to reach the same level of autonomy they had before the Borbons, except for some fanatics of Independence.

It probably wont happen. I don't think seperatism is a good thing I think part of the reason Spain has fallen behind Europe is because countries like Italy,France,Germany etc. have stamped out all those regional differences Spain needs to follow suit and start to make progress in making Castillian the foremost language of importance. Then Spain would be more united and have more influence be more powerfull etc. etc.

Hi Quintos233!

As a linguist I do love languages which means that Id' be totally against Castillian being over the other national languages. As a Spaniard, I'm really proud of having such a rich and ancient linguistic culture.

Spain was the most important country in Europe for centuries but I don't think we've lost prestige or power because our languages . In the 16th century Galician, Castillian, Euskara, Català (Langue D'Oc or Provençal), Dutch, German, etc, etc, etc were spoken throughout the Empire.

If we look back into the past we can see that during the 20th century we've had a terrible civil war which totally destroyed the country and, in addition to this, the contribution of Spain to the reich was not the most appropriate decision.

States from the E.U. such as Italy, Germany or France took advantage of the Marshall Plan after WW2 and they could reactivate their economies; however, we had to rebuild Spain on our own but Franco's regime had a nationalsocialist nature; thus, the US decided to make an economic blockade from 1945 till 1954 which prevented the regime from developing. No income, no trade, no politics, no freedom... 30 years. Meanwhile, the other states were having an economic boom and the E.U. had already been born.

That's the difference we've got nowadays. But I think that we're doing pretty well.

There are other countries that have many official languages or where more than one language is widely used, like Switzerland or Canada, and they are very prosperous. So this probably shouldn't be an issue for Spain. However, if the languages are used as a way to isolate one from the others, and not to integrate one strong multilingual nation, that's another story. Hopefully, Spain will continue to grow economically like in the past years and give its citizens better living standards every year. I hope the best for Spain.

Amleth with all due respect: Franco's regime was not nationalsocialistic. I would say that Franco's regime was franquist. His political tendencies were rightist in many ways, but he also took some leftist decissions as creating the "Seguridad Social" (health public system) or protected houses for poor people.

As for the thread: In my opinion Spain could split up with this Government or any other government which will let it happen (no matter that would be illegal and against our constitution).

There is a certain chance that the Basque Country and/or Catalonia get independent in the next 20 years or so, but that depends on multiple factors.

According polls, separatism is supported by 20-35% of population in both regions.

And I think that language has nothing to do with this. It is just another thing that has been used by nationalists to show people how different they are. It is the use they make of language, and not the language itself, which is the problem.

Fernando

Fernando a Nationalist Socialist government would have some leftist aspects as well it does have the word socialist in it after all. Francos government was not Nationalist Socialist but just classical far right nationalist government it was not based on Hitlers political views. I think the biggest threats Spain will have to over come and deal with is the massive third world immigration, Islamic Arab terriosm, and the seperatism.

Hi !

Sorry, I think I've been misunderstood. I didn't say Franco's regime was based upon national socialism. I said it had a national socialist "nature". Fascism and Nazism were somehow similar, weren't they?

Yes, there is a possibility of independence but I don't think that is going to happen within the E.U. It makes no sense because we are in a process of unification.

But Franco's Regime wasn't fascist either (in my opinion) Mussolini's Regime was fascist. I think that Franco's Regime was "franquist" if you want. In the sense that, althought it shared things with fascist regimes, Franco's relied on different ideologies to support its regime and rule (including fascism via the Falange, the fascist party).

I really hope EU can be a break for nationalism, but I doubt it.

Fernando

Getting back to the thread, I have to admit that I agree with Fernando in the sense that I don't think anyone can clearly guess where Spain will be as a nation in the next twenty years. I have a feeling that there's a better chance than not that it will still be together, but maybe not they way it stands today. Federal government? Commonwealth model? Who knows.

What is clear is that there is a not so insignificant percentage that wouldn't mind separating, especially in the Basque Country and Cataluña. What's more, history shows that you do not need a majority to become independent (e.g. the American Revolution). It tends to depend on WHO and WHAT sector want that independence. So far, it seems like much of industry (both regions are economic powerhouses) still leans towards staying within Spain and that is very important.
But that doesn't necessaruly have to be that way forever.

It's interesting because I have noticed a lot of parallels between the early years of Spanish democracy and American democracy. Remember that the American Civil War was in big part a result of a deep constitutional clash on States rights versus Federal governments rights, and these issues are cropping up in Spain too.

By no means am I suggesting that Spain is heading in the same direction, but what I'm trying to say is that democracies like Spain, after a long period of dictatorship and a deeply-rooted tradition of cultural diversity, it is only normal that the different political forces should continue to struggle over what kind of nation they really want. We look at American democracy and think that it's always been like that, and it's simply not true.

Spain still has a lot of issues to work out, and there are a lot of interests involved on everyone's part. That's why I think the situation is still complicated.

We'll see what happens today in the Basque elections...and tomorrow...and the next day.

As for the language, well they ceratinly contribute to cultural identity and richness, but they are also widely used for political ends, which is a shame. Just last week one Catalan journalist criticized the deceased John Paul II
for not having ever spoken Catalan, which I thought was rather petty to say. It had nothing to do with the moment.