Hi,
I've read some of your messages regarding americans. I just want to tell you a couple of things. First, most of the people here are americans, so there is no way that you are going to "win".
Second, althought this is a board about Spain the opinion of Spaniards are not valuable here. I read posts about many topics and I saw Spaniards saying "in Spain you can wear anything you want" and 5 minutes later yo see 5 posting of AMERICANS saying that is not true. Of course the went there for a month and they think they know more than a Spaniard who lived there for 30 years.
This is a message board for Americans don't bother trying to educate them you are wasting your time.

I agree.

LOL

Ignacio

I have actually been saying to myself how grateful I am to have some Spanish voices on the board. So I hope your crotchety diatribe doesn't convince them that they are unnapreciated. And, this is not a uniquely American board; we have members from Holland, Finland, Eastern Europe, Great Britain and more. Obviously Madridman or Antonio could elaborate more on that.

Why all the hostility?

Discomforme: What an incredibly negative post! I have been so glad to see more and more Spaniards join in on the discussions on this bulletin board. The opinions of Spaniards are, in my mind, extremely important, if not MORE important than those of other nationalities. After all, like you said, we're talking about SPAIN! How can we even begin to understand people from countries other than our own if we write off an entire group, like you just did with Americans?

Diana (a first generation American who lived almost 2 decades in other countries, and practically all her adult life in Spain, who fights daily to make people understand that all people share this planet, and that we all need to be more accepting, understanding, and respectful of people from all races, religions, and cultural and economic backgrounds, and who's very mad right now.)

I agree that it is international, not all american, but anyway, I think that making that kind of in-depth analisys on a country, after staying there for ONE (1) month, is a bit daring.

It is the same as when some N.Am. come here, and after fifteen days they can make a detailed file on safety, foods, history, sociology, ...

One thing is an opinion, other is giving lessons without a good knowledge.



Ignacio

[ 09-05-2001: Message edited by: Ignacio ]

OKAY CHILDREN (and only 1 or 2 of you might be considered children for lack of maturity)! STOP YOUR BICKERING/FIGHTING/NAME-CALLING! THIS IS NOT WHY WE HAVE THIS MESSAGE BOARD!

And NO! THIS MESSAGE BOARD IS ***NOT*** FOR "AMERICANS", but for the entire world and those who have some appreciation for Spain. If you have no appreciation for Spain, I invite you NOT to participate. Thank you.

We're here to politely (as possible) exchange ideas and to help others. Who cares if most of us here are "Americans" or WHATEVER nationality?! It makes absolutely NO difference and no one should need/want to WIN any point of view they may have.

Sure, express yourself freely, but don't think and DON'T TRY to convince others that one is RIGHT and one is WRONG. Why can't we all be MORE open minded to the opinions of others?? I, for one, greatly respect the points of view which our Spaniard message board members have.

Discomforme, I seriously hope you weren't FIRST registered under a different username and using this NEW one to disguise your identity. This is what I suspect and will be looking into your IP address upon returning home.

En fin, PLAY NICE or don't play at all.

:o El Jefe Fuerte, MadridMan

[ 09-05-2001: Message edited by: MadridMan ]

I agree that it is silly to make ridiculous generalizations about a place with very little knowledge. I remember a couple in France who spent two weeks in Los Angeles and came back with all sorts of bizarre stories about "how the U.S. really was." annoying. Nonetheless, some of the posts regarding clothes and such respond to how non-Spaniards feel traveling in Spain and clues as to how to feel more comfortable.

Nonetheless Disconforme smacked down an equally offensive and irritating generalization by implying uniformity in all members of the board (anyone with half a brain would realize by looking at other posts that we differ on many, many things, including perceptions of Spain and what things to see, etc.) and by being patronizing and dismissive ("don't bother trying to educate them" - how insulting).

I didn't like the style either. Both nationalist and a bit rude, IMHO.

I am not saying that N.Ams. shouldn't say their opinion on clother, food, ... I think it may be more useful to other foreigners than our impressions as natives, for they see things we don't because they are so natural for us. That's why I joined this forum, to have another point of view of my country and Madrid.

But I have been three times to the States, and I don't feel entitled to speak on how you feel, think, or how politics and inmigration are or should be. Besides, USA's states and Spain's regions in a smaller scale are so different from each other, and their peoples so diverse ...

Ignacio

[ 09-05-2001: Message edited by: Ignacio ]

[ 09-05-2001: Message edited by: Ignacio ]

I don't think anything worthwhile is learned without some controversy. If we accepted everything on the basis of what we perceive as being accurate, we'd all stumble along blindly, without seeing the truth.

If it wasn't for Fernando, Marco, Ignacio, Antonio, and all of the Spanish members of our family being out here, we would never understand the difference between our perceptions of Spain, and the reality that they live with every day.

Personally, I appreciate all that they offer, and know I would enjoy sitting down for drinks and dinner with all of them, and would consider it an honor if they called me their friend.

Wolf (Who likes the Spanish greeting with hugs, over the American greeting, where shaking hands seems to be a chore for too many people. )

I have read some posts from Spaniards that claim one can wear anything and be ok in Spain. I have probably written in saying that I disagree...not to say that Spaniards don't know Spain, but that they don't know the way their version of "anything" can be taken by Americans! For example, you can wear shorts...though in the US that means cutoff shorts that migrate so far north as to settle somewhere around Michigan (if you get my meaning ) I don't believe that is what Spaniards think about when they say "shorts"...but a lot of folks here do. Part of the beauty of this board is being able to get perceptions out in the open...and that involves a lot of quibbling about what words mean!

la maestra (who has happily quibbled with people from LOTS of different countries!)