Wolf,

“Are we to gather from your report that nobody had ever been stabbed by a Spaniard in the past? Are we also to believe that absolutely no Spaniards committed a crime during the last several days, or physically harmed anyone?”
Wow! That's kind of tough to swallow, isn't it?

-To answer your question; I'm sure during the last several days SOME Spaniard must have harmed someone, in some way, it would be idiotic not to think that, but as far as killings go, apart from the minors from Ecuador who have killed the Spanish kid, because he asked them what a fight that had taken place the previous day was all about; there has been a Spanish man who has killed his daughter, this having something to do with the fact that he had either gotten separated or divorced from her mum (domestic violence towards women, now THAT is another very interesting and seemingly “popular activity”). And finally, today a couple of gipsy youngsters were killed by others just this morning, the motive? "un ajuste de cuentas' (I really don't know how to translate it), apart from the gypsies, that are traditionally big on these, most foreign mobs operating in Spain, are seemingly “very keen” on performing them, and THAT is a big problem if you ask me.

Actually, I guess this little statistic about what has gone on during the last few days is, to me, quite representative of the general crime scene in our country nowadays. Most murders and violent attacks either do involve immigrants, (like it or not!), mobs or gangs members to be more precise; are related to domestic violence (both Spanish and foreigners alike commit these), OR are related to drugs, or drug dealing (again, both “groups” are likely to take part on these).

Tough to swallow? It may be, but who still believes we live in a fair, or as I call it “la,la,la world”?

“Some people just don't realize the positive impact that immigration ends up having on society.”

-I agree 100% with you on that one Wolf, and it would be SO COOL if the immigration phenomenon could be just a totally “free and natural” thing, but I'm afraid facts show us that there needs to be some control over it, I believe you were the one who asked at the beginning of this thread why Spain didn't deport the immigrants who committed felonies; well, all I'm saying is, that's the kind of thing we'd need to be sorting out.

Fernando,

“Though it is true that Spain has always been a safe country, it is not less true that we have had crime all of the time (as any other country), and that those crimes were committed by Spaniards (a minority of them by gypsies).”
What has happened is that the immigrants who came here to commit crimes have been added to this pool of undesirables.”

-Of course, unfortunately, violence is part of the human condition, and Spanish people were humans last time I checked; however, can you honestly say that your “Spanish ears” don't feel shocked every time that you watch the news and hear about yet another incident involving a GUN weapon?, because that was something pretty much unheard of for me until I turned what, 25? And seriously, do you feel now just as safe, in the streets of Madrid, as you did 10 ago? I wished I did.
In my view, you totally hit the nail on the head when you pointed out that different cultures have a different attitude towards violence; my God! Many Colombian kids in most Colombian cities, AND their teachers for protection, carry guns to class! (guess they hardly ever flunk, uh?)

ERT,

“What I'm trying to explain is that multicultural societies have never worked and it is a fantasy to believe the contrary when factual data have shown otherwise.”

-I feel bad for you ERT, I believe that statement to be wrong, as I sort of expressed before, in my comment to Wolf; but also extremely pessimistic, considering the fact that in time there will probably be ONE big society, and totally multicultural,….and I really hope it works!!!

“….(like those of Colombia, Venezuela, Chile, Honduras,...)….They come from countries where life doesn't mean much for many of them”

-Mmm….I've always feared that sentiment, while I think I can understand where you're coming from when you say that (see my previous last comment to Fernando), I believe that to be a very DANGEROUS thought; I mean, the moment one thinks that others don't appreciate their own lives as much as one does, then it starts to seem much simpler, or like a better idea, to hurt, or even get rid off, those “other people” altogether! Personally, I choose to believe that, although it might not “seem” so, Iraqi, Ethiopian, American, Colombian, Chinese or Spanish mothers' feelings after the deaths of their children are pretty much the same.
It also seems to me that you generalize “big time”. Think of your Brazilian friend, there must be many other immigrants just like her, don't you think?

Miche,

“How many wrongs are done to both legal and illegal immigrants? But these injustices are not in 'El Mundo' who only on the whole choose to report the worst possible facets of immigration.”

-Of course these occasional injustices, like the killing at the Maremagnum in Barcelona, are covered by El Mundo, and every other Spanish newspaper!, Terra's source, EFE news agency, is Spanish; or are you trying to accuse all Spanish journalists of blatant racism?!

“This is obviously how all Spaniards behave to immigrants.”

-Ooops! I guess, you were indeed calling the media AND the rest of this society racists. Don't you think you too are generalizing a little?

Booklady,

“Spain seems to have the lowest murder rates among Southern European countries and that is probably why so many people feel safe there.”

-This sounds to me a little like the saying, I don't know if you're familiar with it, “'mal de muchos, consuelo de tontos'”, meaning, yes, compared to many countries this is still a very safe place to live, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't work towards trying to keep it, at least at it is (violence-wise), and avoid it getting worse, don't you agree?
Somebody, I don't remember whom, made an excellent point, mentioning that there MUST BE a reason behind the remarkable rising of some right-wing-extremist (nazi-sympathizers! ) political parties in Europe in recent years. Scary!

ERT,

Booklady a communist?, that must be a joke, right?