Steve,

In another life, which means many years ago, I read "Catcher in the Rye" which was introduced to me be someone I considered much more intellectual than yours truly. I just don't remember it being one of the best books I've ever read by far. I think it's popularity is solely based on what the education community thinks about it.

I think our language should no longer be considered English, although it was certainly derived from English, and for the most part, Brits and Statesean's (borrowed from MM) can for the most part understand each other. But the two languages just <ain't> the same. One of the new trends I see amongst the younger generation, no doubt because of our lousy public education system, is the confusion and interchange of the words much and many. Like nails on a chalkboard to me.

When I was still in High School, literature classes still offered literature created by English authors. But American literature is reflected more by Herman Melville, Edgar Allen Poe, Mark Twain, Irving S. Cobb, and the person whom I'm reading now William Faulkner. Then there's Tennessee Williams, a very peculiar author.

gazpacho

I also don´t think Catcher in the Rye was the best book I´ve ever read but , like many books , it represents a generation .. a change from conservatism to liberalism . The same as the music of the Beatles and The Doors in the 60s .
Jack Kerouac with his incredible book " On the Road " was ahead of his time ... That book , to me , was astounding . In the UK we were always concentrating on classical literature in that era ( the 50s ) .. Kerouac , and the beat generation preceeded the so-called teenage revolution of the 60s . He talked about freedom and individuality .

And I always loved these words

"And this I believe: that the free, exploring mind of the individual human is the most valuable thing in the world. And this I would fight for: the freedom of the mind to take any direction it wishes, undirected. And this I must fight against: any idea, religion, or government which limits or destroys the individual. This is what I am and what I am about."
— John Steinbeck (East of Eden)

OK, Gazpacho, I must take offense at your statement about our "lousy public education system". I am one of those employed by a Michigan school. My co-workers are very dedicated teachers who want the best for their students. (well, most of my co-workers, anyway) They work well beyond the contractual day and spend money above and beyond what they are given. These are bad times for public education with the funding cuts. If you are the letter writing type, you should write to our governor and legislators to encourage them to restore funds to public education. I believe that the responsiblity for success of children in school falls more on the parents and home than the schools and teachers. If parents do not value education or send their children to school ready to learn, there is little that teachers can do to help them. (although we try!)

Language is one of those things that is fluid and changing. I believe that in time, English will undergo a drastic change due to the popularity of texting and instant messaging. Is it good, bad or just different? I see the same evolution with Spanish as it mixes with English here in the US.

On a lighter note, my 13 year old son got a hold of my copy of "Catcher in the Rye" last year. He devoured it, but I think he liked the fact that it had so much profanity. (which he is not allowed to use because I am trying to raise a responsible boy I didn't mind that he read it.

teachertraveler8,

I kind of knew that would "get your goat", but public education is one of my pet peeves. Similar to Steve and the Catholic Church. As for throwing even more money at education, c'mon! And writing to the governor who assured us that after five years we'd be blown away, well, she got that right, but not in the same context she meant.

Several years ago, my wife's cousin husband was very proud of all three boy's education. Indeed they had many awards from the school. I thought nothing of it and out of curiosity tossed them a question, which I didn't think too hard for kids starting high school. I asked, "who was the American president who freed the slaves." They had to think about this, and one volunteered, Martin Luther King.

I rest my case.

Also, here working in Detroit, almost all my co-workers were educated in and around Detroit. You don't know the endless records, even my boss', that I had to correct for spelling, grammar. It was just too embarrassing.

On a funny note, when I worked on navigational systems on aircraft, one of the pilot's wrote up one of my navigational systems as behaving 'erotically'. I volunteered immediately to troubleshoot that aircraft.



gazpacho

Gazpacho, Please tell me you are not taking one example to blow the whole debate out of context.
I am a teacher. I don't believe throwing money at the problem will fix it. I have to agree with Teacher..
Students and parents take from education what they put in. Every single day I am a teacher, caregiver, nurse, counselor, magician, actress and motivator. I will not give up and through direct, explicit instruction AND access to the core curriculum, I am giving my students every opportunity to get the most out of the education I provide.

Now, I am not going to rant or turn this into a political issue, as per the rules of the forum, but I just couldn't sit and read and not "put in my two cents".

laduque,

I gave three reasons why I think that public education is sordid in the U.S. I don't have the time or inclination to point out all of the damage to our country caused by those, who I believe, sold this country out.

I have no children myself but I have nieces and nephews. They have no critical thinking skills, no aspirations, no interest in anything beyond the latest video game, in short, not a clue. I was raised by an educational system that taught me there was no limit as to what I could become and provided me with the basic skills to pursue anything I desired. And I had lots of desires.

I make no apologies or concede nothing in the parent/teacher debate. A long time ago I read a book about Russia in which teachers scolded the parents as to how they raised their children at their version of PTA meetings. I wouldn't want to see that.

I've been fleeced long enough into having to support a service that provides very poor results. Please, more education, less indoctrination.

Don't worry though, in a few years there won't be any more of us gazpachos around that can see the horrible decline in education and the repercussion that result in it. There is already enough dumbing-down that future generations will accept anything they are told.

gazpacho

Point taken.
And I hope and I know there are more Gazpachos around!!!

Thanks for sharing your opinion, and for reading mine!

Now, let's get back to "discussing" what we all come to this board for.....SPAIN!