The only time in my life that I came close to being arrested was one day when I beat the crap out of a guy who punched his wife in the face at a beer garden at a softball tournament.

Had I been arrested, and had I been charged, it would have been worth it because the only way bullies understand they can't get away with their abuse is when someone stands up and allows themselves to be counted as against it.

I know that violence in the name of preventing violence doesn't set the right tone with a lot of people but like they say, "Sometimes you have to fight fire with fire." To me, that was one of those times it had to be done. Especially when I saw so many men standing around, totally unwilling to help the woman when he went after her to punch her again.

The official police version? I was defending her from further physical harm. Case closed! I'd do it again, without hesitation.

Wolf

Madridman,
your comment somewhat made my day. I guess I just didn't make myself clear. I'm the first one to admit that I'm not the most informed on Spanish politics or history. I understand that they've only been a liberated country for a short time. But, violence is violence is violence and, correct me if I'm wrong, you made it seem like it was more of a cultural thing rather than a rights violation. I'm not saying that things are all dandy everwhere, especially here in the U.S. but it is something that does need exposure. On access to abortion, as a young Xicana feminist, I understand that a woman's right to choose is under threat. Why else would I and another million people have marched on Sunday? The thing is, Europe is considered to be one of the most progressive areas in the world. So to hear that Spanish women don't have free access to abortion is mind boggling. So, there ya go. Oh, and just a quick little fact, the Catholic church didn't forbid abortion until 1869 and it wasn't because they respected the sanctity of life so much, it was more because prostitution and sex outside of marriage was "running rampant."

Wolf,
I would have done the same thing.

Xicanita,

There is quite a disparity between, "being considered" and reality. I personally would not consider Europe more progressive than the U.S. Not economically, not socially. They cling to old traditions much more tenaciously than we do. Which, in the case for feminism at least, I concur. But when it comes to not providing equal justice for both men and women, I don't concur.

Wolf raises a good point: how on earth did domestic violence ever become a male vs. female issue?? My God, I have two daughters of my own. All victims of domestic violence have/had fathers and most of them have brothers and male cousins and perhaps brothers-in-law. Can anything be less "macho" than to allow your daughter/sister/cousin to get brutalized? I am sorry, but I just don't understand it.

When I think of domestic violence, I think of Sonny's (James Caan) reaction in The Godfather. If you watch that scene, MAN, his reaction is so pure!

Killing in the act of domestic violence is the END rsult not the beginning, for the pattern of abuse is almost always present.

So in political terms, who on earth can oppose such a law? How can police treat these things so lightly? How can celebrities get away with it? How can kids be permitted to stay in such a house?

Not a democrat, republican, left vs. right issue, but one that that should be unambiguous. If is not, then it is a terribly sad commentary on modern politics. Perhaps our friends in Scandinavia, who are often on the forefront of issues such as this, have sound laws on the books that can serve as models??

I am behind Z (surprised?) on getting a sensible but strong law on the books ASAP.

A

Right to an abortion?

Did you ever MEET a woman who had an abortion?
Apparently not. You would think differently if
you did.

As for the Catholic Church being against abortion only since 1869, that's a load of mierda.

Europe, Spain included, is depopulating itself.
Look at the statistics.

Hello everyone.!!!

First of all. Im happy about we are talking about this problem. I dont know if domestic violence is biggest here than another country but I suppose it is. But thats not the point. The point its became a problem. Im optimist with the new goberment. This is a judicial problem and now the the new goberment is trying to solve it giving more proteccion to the woman who talked about it and go to the police (I dont remember the verb )
Anyway there is a big difficulty. Most of the women depends economically of their partners so when they wanna finish the relationship they can finish it with a economic independence. Now the new law (improved by the new goberment) permit that any woman in this situation has a lawer trained for this kind of issues, about domestic violence, etc. So they are trying to change the law to give a good answer to the problem but I think there is a lot of work to do in this case. Now, after the Aznar s goberment which stop a good new law in the past because it became from the socialist and no from them, the things can change. In the public schools kids will have a better education in the subjet, trying to make them understand in a more effective way that girls and boys are the same. Its a problem about culture and in this way we have to work toguether. For me its something to be ashamed for. And the men who beat and kill their partners are cowards and animals.

Por la dignidad de la mujer.

Peace my friends.

Hello everybody!
Well Id like you to see a new law that the new goberment is going to include to try to solve this tragical problem.
Check this web:

http://www.elmundo.es/elmundo/2004/06/04/espana/1086348391.html

The web is changing all the time so I dont know if youll be able to see it tomorrow or even this afternoon but if you look for it in the www.elmundo.es web you will realise that the goberment giving a step to figure out a good solution. Well see...
Por la dignidad de la mujer.

[originally posted by april29 on 06-08-2004 11:23 AM]

Hi everybody, I've been in Madrid end of May, for a week, and I've seen on the news 2 infos about wifes beaten to death by husbands... Can you imagine the sufferings of these women? This is so savage, and I hope some measures will be, really, finally taken and really, finally applied !!

I recommend to see the domestic violence percentage in Sweden, Norway, France,United States etc... and compare it with spaniard numbers. Maybe you will be surprised.

Sorry is in spanish, but you can see the numbers.
And it are bloodcurdling.

"Informe del Consejo de Europa de 2002 indica que la violencia doméstica en los hogares europeos es la principal causa de muerte o invalidez en el grupo de mujeres entre 16 y 44 años, por delante del cáncer o los accidentes de tráfico. Los países escandinavos figuran a la cabeza de Europa occidental en asesinatos de mujeres cometidos por su pareja o su ex compañero, por lo que el mito de la latitud debe ser revisado. De acuerdo con los datos de los archivos policiales o judiciales del año 2000, en peor situación está Rumania con una cifra de 12,62 asesinadas por cada millón de mujeres, seguida de Finlandia (8,65), Noruega (6,58), Luxemburgo (5,56), Dinamarca (5,42), Suecia (4,59), Reino Unido (4,36), Alemania (3,58), España (2,44), Irlanda (2,01), Holanda (1,83) y Polonia (1,85). Destaca únicamente Islandia, que no contabiliza ninguna muerte por violencia de género.

En otros continentes de cultura occidental y estadísticas fiables la situación es parecida. Por ejemplo en Australia este “contador de la vergüenza” arroja 8,15 muertas por millón de mujeres. En EE.UU. (con un índice de 8,7), las visitas a urgencias por lesiones causadas por malos tratos superan el millón al año, más que los accidentes de coche, atracos y violaciones juntos. Más de 1.500 mujeres norteamericanas son asesinadas, cada año, por quienes juraron amarlas. Esta aberración sexista afecta a todas las clases sociales. Incluso el “mundo de los famosos” nutre las hemerotecas con casos de pésima repercusión internacional: La muerte de la actriz Marie Trintignat, o los malos tratos conyugales recibidos por personajes como Marilyn Monroe, Katharine Hepburn, Doris Day, Madonna, Halle Berry, Farrah Fawcett o Tina Turner, a manos de sus parejas también de renombre, demuestra que la pandemia no conoce fronteras"